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A recent event that I’m sure fully counts as culture war is the official removal in Odessa of the monument to the city’s founders, mainly Catherine the Great. The justification, which is rather easy to predict, is that Catherine was a perpetrator of Moskal imperialism who repressed Ukrainian patriots (supposedly they already existed back then), committed cultural genocide and erased Ukrainian nationhood (which obviously we’re also supposed to believe existed back then). There isn’t much to comment on this, I think (though I’ll again point out that Odessa would never have existed in the first place without Catherine), but an educated redditor was eager to point out* the curious fact that the removed monument is actually a replica erected in 2007, largely as a response to the events of the so-called Orange Revolution, as the original was removed (and supposedly destroyed) by the Soviets in 1920. So yes, it was originally removed as an imperialist relic, by powers that the Ukrainian authorities claim later perpetrated genocide specifically against Ukrainians because they were Ukrainians i.e. it was an incident between opposing factions of Ukraine deniers. This is where we’re at, which actually doesn’t surprise me that much because I believe we’ve been in a clown world for a long time.
*https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/zyccgk/catherine_the_great_statue_taken_down_in_odesa/
The monument to Catherine was demolished because Catherine the Great is associated with Russia. One should not look for some philosophical or historical meaning here. It's just a symbolic gesture against a pile of copper.
Again, she is the founder of Odessa. This is yet another farce.
What does that have to do with the people of Odessa wanting nothing to do with her today?
A lot, as otherwise they wouldn't have their city.
This is such a goofy argument that's pretty clearly a result of motivated reasoning. Does ordering a city be founded at a particular location give a person some unassailable claim to have their statue there for all eternity? If you honestly think it does, you need to do a lot more work to back up that assertion. Statues aren't just some note in a history book. They're meant to glorify a particular historical figure. Given Cathy's association with Russia, and Russia's current actions against Ukraine, it ought to be pretty understandable why the people of Odessa don't want to glorify the leader of a nation that's currently terror bombing them and engaging in war crimes left and right.
Yes. Absolutely. And of course.
Frankly I find the opposite opinion very strange. Honoring creators and founders is probably one of the most ancient and universal traditions of humanity.
War propaganda is extremely petty in comparison.
Founders of cities are honored with a statue if they're seen as honorable, not just because they happened to found a city.
If Hitler happened to found a city somewhere in occupied Russia during WW2, do you think Hitler is entitled to have a statue of himself in that city forever?
And if Mao Zedong happened to create shelters for dispossessed landlords...
...no, wait, he has done exactly the opposite.
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Unironically, I do.
Hell I think he already deserves to be honored for his few but important good deeds or generally as an important historical figure even though he did great evil. And that's coming from someone who despises all forms of totalitarianism. I see no more reason to destroy his statues as I do Lenin's. Who is as great and terrible a man in many ways. Nazi iconoclasm seems more a feature of boomer mythical truth than any reasoned view of history if you ask me.
Kayne might have said it extremely poorly but I think he was right on that. It is good (and most importantly Christian) to be able to use forgiveness to separate good and evil in the legacy of all men.
But this is all besides the point, Catherine the Great wasn't Hitler.
For a more relevant example, was it not silly to rename Tsaritsyn to Stalingrad?
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