This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The solution to that is the salary floor. Given that the modal diploma mill graduate isn't that smart, if you put the floor in the right place, firms won't pay that for what they get.
The salary floor is in the works. That is something which, to the best of my knowledge, needs to come from Congress. Thus the American Tech Workforce Act, which would raise the floor from $60,000 to $150,000, among some other things which all seem aimed at reducing the number of H1B visas. It would also get rid of the provision that allows recent graduates of American universities to work here for three years.
More options
Context Copy link
Agreed. This 100K payment thing seems less effective than a salary floor, which is an idea that's been floating around for a while. That, and don't tie H1Bs to employers like serfdom so they'll be less willing to put up with crappy conditions.
I think in some of these cases (I'm going to not express an opinion on the policy change itself at the moment) we're seeing the lawyers in the administration find the closest approximation that is (arguably) allowed by the text Congress passed. In this case, it seems to be that they're allowed to recoup the costs of the program via fees (and government accounting is famous for keeping costs reasonable). I suspect --- but would need to wade into far more details than I care to tonight --- that they weren't directly empowered to raise the salary floor. The first AI agent I asked suggests that the floor is set by Department of Labor statistics, which may not be easy to change without even larger side effects.
More options
Context Copy link
Isn't tying H1-Bs to the employer just a necessary function of the entire concept? The company applies to hire them for a specific position it claims it cannot find Americans for. Ending the corporate bondage is just ending the entire program.
They could just ask Congress to change the law. Trump can whip congressional Republicans to do pretty much whatever he wants, and there would be more than enough Democrats in favor of liberalizing H1-B work restrictions that it would almost certainly pass.
Yes, I suppose it is theoretically possible to functionally end the program by just tolerating free immigration by anyone who ostensibly has a job, but I'm not sure why you think the Trump administration would not just tolerate that, but actively spend political capital (such as a scorched earth revolt by it's base) to achieve that end?
Hooray economic zone?
But if in exchange you make the fee be 150k paid then first employer over three years (and renewals cost 75k for every additional three years), then you would probably severely limit the people coming over to be only truly good people.
Why would an employer pay any of that if there was no restriction on the H1-B dipping to a different job? From an employer who can afford to pay them more because they didn't just drop a bunch of money and HR hours on bringing them over?
Cost of doing business. Maybe the 50k payments in Y2 and Y3 are paid by a subsequent employer if employee leaves initial employer.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
It helpfully clarifies that the issue is not actually exploitation of H1-Bs and is in fact just opposition to immigration.
Can you clarify what this means? The US is an economic zone. It will still be an economic zone if it expels every single foreign-born individual and closes the borders.
Things can have more than one reason. AIUI, a large part of the appeal of the H1-B from the immigrant perspective is that it's a foot in the door that leads to permanent and eventually chain immigration. That might be more tolerable if we were getting generational talents and specific, genuinely needed skills, but the system seems to be systematically gamed to hell and back.
The US isn't just an economic zone. Put it this way, would you be ok with being deported to India if it made numbers on a chart go up? Or do you think you have some sort of right to be here?
The US isn't just an economic zone regardless of its immigration policy, so it would be helpful if the people saying this would say what they actually mean.
You're going to have to elaborate further, because this seems like a total non-sequitur.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link