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If no one else is going to link to Scott's latest CW-related post, I guess I'll try to meet the mods' wishes for a top level comment... (Though I didn't re-read it, so...)
Fascism Can't Mean Both A Specific Ideology And A Legitimate Target
I agree, inasmuch we stipulate "Political violence in America is morally unacceptable" means "literally, categorically unacceptable, due to our assessment of the threat of fascism" and "(at the current time)" ignores the possibility of near-future change in the threat-assessment. Though I emphatically oppose political violence, I don't think it would be logically incongruent to leave open the possibility that fascism is bad enough that we're near the point of political violence being acceptable. But I don't think Scott's doing a motte-and-bailey, by using a narrow denotation; just stating a motte, with the expectation his readers take it at face value.
Characteristic of Scott, the post is a neat exercise in logical tidiness. However, it only gestures at the bigger, scarier question: How do societies classify danger and determine when violence becomes permissible? The classification of threats is important, because names carry significant policy weight (e.g., Trump labeling Antifa a domestic terrorist organization...). Label something "fascism" as a distinct ideology, and you direct attention towards connotations and lineage. However, use the same term as a moral epithet (i.e., a catch-all for political enemies) and you alter the rhetorical perception.
All political action is violence... or at least the threat of violence. We've put a nice facade over it and depending at what point in history the majority and even the vast majority do not think about this. In my more argumentative days I figured I'd pierce the facade and instead of people giving up violence for petty thing got more "Fine, I'm OK killing you". Since no one wants to be an anarch-capitalist be careful when piercing the facade with unstable people.
Tags: Libertarian "Gun in the Room", Nothing every happens
This is such a bizarre argument, particularly for one I've seen repeated again and again in different variations with negligible pushback. When they say "This movie may contain scenes of violence", they aren't talking about a parliamentary committee crafting legislation. When the FBI gathers events for inclusion in their "violent crime" statistics, they don't count voter fraud. People with a commitment to "nonviolence" have no problem voting, and they aren't regarded as hypocrites for doing so.
People have no problem with recognizing violence (or the lack of it) when they see it, but this novel expansive definition of violence keeps popping up.
A facade, and a wall, and armor plating, and a maze beyond that. Stalin had a facade of nonviolence as he was genociding Ukrainians, but we (practically) have the real thing. People don't think about the "facade" because there are genuine, strong social barriers to using (normally-defined) violence.
One man’s modus ponens is another man’s modus tollens.
A parliametary committee crafting legislation isn't violence any more than a crime boss saying "And anyone but us starts dealing drugs north of Third Street, you put them in the hospital". Nor any less.
Nah. I can recognize the difference between organizing and directing people to assault others, and measuring environmental contaminants. The first one is closer to violence, if it was unclear to you.
As a practical issue, I often see "X is violence" paired with the (sometimes unstated) claim that "X can be resisted with violence". I'll admit to some motivated reasoning as my opposition to murdering parliamentarians bleeds through, but I still think there's a difference between being one step removed from fighting in a gang war and being a dozen steps removed from issuing a fine for corporate noncompliance.
Measuring, maybe, but that's hardly all the legislature does. Sometimes crime bosses just order lunch too. The legislature makes rules which the direct result of which is violence applied to those who disobey, and no amount of talking about environmental contaminants will change that.
I didn't set the standards we're discussing here. The claim upthread is "All political action is violence." If you didn't agree with that, then it would've been nice to know earlier. I don't have any reason to debate the fact that some political action is violence.
Sometimes the politicians order lunch too. Or proclaim today National Northern Hemispheric Penguin Day or some other such thing. But a lot of it is about deciding what acts will now call for state violence against the actor, or arguing about how to divide the spoils from the protection racket.
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