This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The root of it is the recognition on the “young right” of WWII as the founding myth of the modern regime, combined with opposition to said regime. The myth is that Hitler, out of sheer hatred, decided to kill all Jews, and on an unrelated notes, to conquer Europe/the world. The US and the allies, of course, saved the day, and we all learned an important lesson about why right wing politics are evil.
The myth is false and the reality is a bit more complicated, and does not really support the weight of the founding myth upon deep interrogation. So young right wingers rebel against the lies by pretending to be nazis. They embrace the villain in order to deny the myth its power.
In my opinion, it’s not really possible for non-Germanic US citizens in 2025 to be “Nazis.” It’s like if a faction of ethnically Chinese citizens identified as Zionists. It makes absolutely no sense because the ideology is tied to a specific people at a specific time. Even hating Jews doesn’t make you a Nazi. Lots of factions have hated Jews throughout history and most of them have little else in common with Nazis. I also believe in some degree of revisionism, and that we learned many of the wrong lessons from the war.
However, I also think the explicit anti-semitism is quite self-defeating. They take a reasonable premise, that the US spends too much on Israel and hypocritically accepts it as an ethnostate (arguably true), and stretch it to an unreasonable extreme - that almost every conservative politician is thoroughly compromised by the jews and are therefore evil/untrustworthy (schizo). Or that Jews are overrepresented in media (true), therefore media exists to push a Jewish agenda (schizo).
There is a bit too much tolerance for the schizo prediction in some of these groups. The problem is not that it will lead to a second Holocaust, so much as it makes us look insane and unsympathetic. At the same time, the general breakdown of Hitler-as-myth is likely immensely helpful to the modern right-wing cause, and jokes or ironic embrace of Hitler do serve this purpose effectively at times. But it is a delicate line between schizo and funny.
I agree this is probably true, but it also strikes me as weird. Because the regime myth up until the 90s was way more about fighting and containing communism. Or just preserving a spot for freedom and individualism in the world.
What regime are you talking about? Nixon and Reagan, despite being president, were basically "bad boys" at best, outcasts more realistically. Not all that much different than Trump, but somehow winning 49 states WITHOUT social media.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link