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PaperclipPerfector  6d ago (text post)   23068 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 10, 2025

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Finlandization after 1944 (remember, after 1940 Finland's eventual choice was to refight the Soviets) was possible specifically because the Soviets were willing to sign a separate peace to free up troops for the vastly bigger and more important cause of vanquishing Germany. This time Russians are only fighting Ukraine and have basically no need to accept anything beyond complete submission, for now, unless the costs become too large.

EU policy towards Russia seems to entirely hinge on the assumption though that Russia is planning the invasion of Moldova, the Baltics and Poland. Also, Finland was in the markedly different situation that only one external power was supporting them by 1944 and only in a rather limited sense.

This time Russians are only fighting Ukraine and have basically no need to accept anything beyond complete submission, for now, unless the costs become too large.

It seems to me that the demands made of Finland and the demands made of Ukraine are quite similar, although I suppose it's a bit debatable because Russia's postwar relationship with Finland was hammered out over a period of time.

  • Ceding territory: Ultimately, Moscow got half of Karelia (more than their prewar demands) and other choice parts of Finland, amounting to nearly 12% of their total territory. This is similar to Russian territorial demands of Ukraine (which it looks like amounts to something like 15% - 20%?), although it seems Putin may be climbing down from earlier demands for the totality of four full provinces.

  • "Denazification" - Finland paid war reparations, had to remove German troops from its territory, ban parties that the USSR considered fascist (and legalize the Communist party) and hold war-responsibility trials. The Reuters' story I linked to does not mention any details of "denazification" of Ukraine. It's been a public Russian demand in the past, but perhaps they've backed off of this as well.

  • Neutralization/disarmament: Finland had to accept limitations on its armed forces as per the 1947 Treaty of Paris and neutralization in the Finno-Soviet Treaty of 1948. Similarly, Russia is demanding limits on the Ukrainian army and essentially neutralization by forcing Ukraine to give up its NATO aspirations.

Similarly, Russia is demanding limits on the Ukrainian army and essentially neutralization by forcing Ukraine to give up its NATO aspirations

In Finland's case though there was nothing similar to give up because there wasn't even any external power inviting them to join any anti-Soviet alliance.

that was the peace treaty. the follow-up was a president-for-life ruling with support from USSR, and public submission of "the cathedral" (or anyone who aspired joining it) to Soviet interests.

And I'm sure Russia would like to achieve a similar outcome in this case via "denazification" although achieving it might be more difficult.

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