This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Edited for correctness, clarity, and tone...
With apologies to the motte for the tardiness on this, I've been recovering from an injury.
A reply to https://www.themotte.org/post/3359/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/381026?context=8#context
Russia.
"We will eat grass rather than become a Russian colony again" — Polish FM Sikorski (and every other sane person in Eastern Europe)
Not to worry, the Russophiles may have a counterproposal, "Your country and women will be raped anyways, wouldn't you rather spend your few remaining years in a nice camp in Siberia rather than the frontlines?" — @No_one, probablyBy now, wise people, who read the newspapers (Russian newspapers generally never lie), have noticed that the news out of Russia is bad. After years of relentless and very stupid propaganda, even 'Izvestia' is running articles such as "Nearly 7000 transport companies in Russia on verge of bankruptcy" and "The share of companies with overdue loans reached a record one in four." A bit of lying around the end, "there is no recession, but of course there are negative trends." (https://youtube.com/watch?v=xbTDbAosRVM)
'Nezavisimaya Gazeta' ditto "the total volume of mutual trade [with China] continues to decline. […] imports of Russian oil decreased by 21%." (https://youtube.com/watch?v=Vs2xNro016M)
That means something. Not at all clear what. Obsessive observers of the war believe Russia is likely to hold out until end of '26, early '27. However:
1- There's a financing issue.
Sure, the Chinese may be willing to keep buying Russian crude at obscene discounts of nearly $20 dollars per barrel (https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Sanctions-Widen-Russias-Crude-Discount-to-20-a-Barrel.html) but will that be enough to keep financing the war?
Russia, as everyone knows, is mostly broke, with the exception of oil and gas revenue, which is only because Europe propped them up. Paying through the nose for overpriced recruits like e.g. convicted criminals and 50 year old grandpas (2 million rubles sign-on bonus, 5 million first year salary) which are going to be used as meat assaults for a gain of 2 meters of frontline doesn't seem like a winning strategy, especially when $500 fpv drones being able to destroy them.
Unlike Ukraine, which will be getting direct Russian cash (which will be replaced by zero-coupon AAA bonds for Russia to pay reparations out of after the war lol) https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/eu-finance-ministers-agree-using-frozen-russian-assets-most-effective-way-to-fund-ukraine, Russia will be resorting to raising money from its Chinese handlers (except because of the sanctions, China can't participate) in Yuan-denominated domestic bonds. https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2025/11/12/russia-to-issue-first-yuan-denominated-domestic-bonds-on-december-8/ Russia-Ukraine watchers will be paying close attention to the interest rates on these.
2- Materially, it's bad.
We know the gist of the situation, Russia has too few IFVs, AFVs, tanks. After losing upwards of 60% of their gigantic pre-war stockpile (the remaining ones being rusted out hulls with their insides scrapped or sold by corrupt base managers), Russian forces are resorting to using donkeys and camels to resupply their frontlines. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-depletes-tank-reserves-due-to-wear-and-tear-in-ukraine/ar-AA1JRlKJ https://www.newsweek.com/russia-deploys-donkeys-camels-ukraine-amid-resupply-struggles-2037097
There is a shortage of everything in Russia, petrol (https://youtube.com/watch?v=CSK7hPhwQl0), bread, potatoes, milk, even vodka (https://youtube.com/watch?v=HncXBqcedCg), but also cars too (https://youtube.com/watch?v=xt6_axtjJMs). Why there is a shortage of cars seems… mysterious. China surely should be able to keep Russians knee deep in cheap trucks. What gives?
There is even a shortage of artillery shells, Russia famously resorting to using North Korean bottom shelf products with 50% failure rates. Not to worry, I'm sure their drones will be way better. https://www.newsweek.com/half-russia-north-korea-made-artillery-shells-do-not-work-vadym-skibitsky-1873612 https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/north-korea-runs-out-of-shells-for-putin-1763159907.html
Russia drops bombs using their many planes daily, but Ukrainians sometimes deliver up to 300 drones and
ballisticcruise missile strikes a day. Any refinery, power plant, supply dump even far away from the front can be hit. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/14/ukraine-war-kyiv-hit-russian-attack/ https://i.redd.it/zxpc8b6p9b1g1.jpeg3- The front.
In 2025, Russian forces have made significant territorial gains in Ukraine, capturing approximately 165 square miles in the four weeks leading up to November 11, 2025. At these rates, Russia should be able to take all of Ukraine in a few decades. https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-november-11-2025
Overall, as you probably know, the situation on the front is bad. Russia is trading immense amounts of blood and treasure for small territorial gains, and patting themselves on the back for it.
Going by the aphorism 'If you're reading this, it's for you,' it looks like the Russian press is preparing the public for 2-3 more years of depression (https://youtube.com/watch?v=z3BVZ66KcrE), a closing act of its imperial ambitions that started with the little green men invasion of the Donbas. Russians may or may not be eager for peace, "61%, up from 54% in 2024 believe it is time to start peace negotiations rather than continue military operations in Ukraine," (https://globalaffairs.org/research/public-opinion-survey/three-four-russians-expect-military-victory-over-ukraine) but unfortunately they have chosen a strong man as a leader (https://youtube.com/watch?v=rXwuLlZeIN0) that has tied his political fortunes to the result of this war, claiming such things as "Russia's border doesn't end anywhere" (https://youtube.com/watch?v=fWaXH7N__LU).
What I hate about this war is that both sides are doing the same, Soviet-style propaganda of shamelessly lying while asserting that they are the clear-sighted purveyors of truth and their enemies are a cesspit of vile and false lies. "Our Great Victory In Novishitburg in Mud Province", "Our Tactical Retreat In Pigachevsky Village", and so on are trumpeted as imminent collapses of the enemy when the relative movement is what, a hundred meters?
The truth - that the line is static and depressingly high casualty - is unsexy and unnewsworthy. That both sides are corrupt shitholes who are willing to grind up their young men into a fine meat paste rather than make a peace. Leave me out of it, or, at the very least, stop telling me about it.
Not sure why Ukraine gets the ‘ both sides … grind their young men … meat paste ‘ when they are doing it so as not to be taken over via war?
What else are they supposed to do ?
Finlandization. It's a dirty word.
But it's the pragmatic equilibrium when you got a large land border with a belligerent neighbor.
Was it humiliating for the Finns to have to give up Karelia and the north? Yes.
But to hold on to those territories would have cost even more.
If the West isn't willing to intervene to return the oblasts and Crimea, then every day spent fighting now is a waste. Russia lacks the ability to threaten the entirety of its sovereignty, but has more than enough to hold on to what it has already gained. It's easy for politicians to spout rhetoric over not surrendering one inch of ground, but young men pay the price for that kind of talk. They're conscripting the 21-year olds now: how much of Ukraine's seed corn will be eaten?
If this war goes on long enough, you might as well start giving conscription papers to the elementary schools and maternity wards. The fighting has gone on for twelve years and there is still no political settlement. The land is important, yes. But the Ukrainian people are even more important. If there is to be a demographic future for the nation (for Russia, too!) peace sooner is better.
Finlandization after 1944 (remember, after 1940 Finland's eventual choice was to refight the Soviets) was possible specifically because the Soviets were willing to sign a separate peace to free up troops for the vastly bigger and more important cause of vanquishing Germany. This time Russians are only fighting Ukraine and have basically no need to accept anything beyond complete submission, for now, unless the costs become too large.
It seems to me that the demands made of Finland and the demands made of Ukraine are quite similar, although I suppose it's a bit debatable because Russia's postwar relationship with Finland was hammered out over a period of time.
Ceding territory: Ultimately, Moscow got half of Karelia (more than their prewar demands) and other choice parts of Finland, amounting to nearly 12% of their total territory. This is similar to Russian territorial demands of Ukraine (which it looks like amounts to something like 15% - 20%?), although it seems Putin may be climbing down from earlier demands for the totality of four full provinces.
"Denazification" - Finland paid war reparations, had to remove German troops from its territory, ban parties that the USSR considered fascist (and legalize the Communist party) and hold war-responsibility trials. The Reuters' story I linked to does not mention any details of "denazification" of Ukraine. It's been a public Russian demand in the past, but perhaps they've backed off of this as well.
Neutralization/disarmament: Finland had to accept limitations on its armed forces as per the 1947 Treaty of Paris and neutralization in the Finno-Soviet Treaty of 1948. Similarly, Russia is demanding limits on the Ukrainian army and essentially neutralization by forcing Ukraine to give up its NATO aspirations.
that was the peace treaty. the follow-up was a president-for-life ruling with support from USSR, and public submission of "the cathedral" (or anyone who aspired joining it) to Soviet interests.
And I'm sure Russia would like to achieve a similar outcome in this case via "denazification" although achieving it might be more difficult.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link