This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I've always seen that.
But the new equilibrium they find themselves in has undermined that goal entirely.
Meckenzie Bezos is also not the most sympathetic case because she's throwing piles of money around at any charitable cause that she can, its functionally an admission that she doesn't need that money to maintain her lifestyle, she
Most of what I've read has indicated that this was not all that common of an occurrence, and relegated mostly to the upper classes, where a guy might have enough money to get a younger model. Middle/lower class guys hitting their 40s generally weren't finding hot young side pieces either. The lower class version of this was dad going out for cigarettes and never coming back.
I suspect it was a fear overblown by feminist rhetoric and probably caused more damage than it was worth, since the recent research I've read, which seems pretty reliable, pegs neuroticism as the personality factor most likely to result in relationship failure/divorce.
Or to put it bluntly, a partner being irrationally worried about their partner cheating on them or dumping them for a new partner is more likely to kill a relationship, than it is for the partner to actually do those things. Which doesn't mitigate the emotional impact when a partner does cheat, granted.
Turns out women have seemingly been getting more neurotic lately.
So my diagnosis is that women have been conditioned to fear being abandoned by their partner and left without support (a very rational fear in premodern times, less so now), and in that fear they're making decisions to sacrifice their fertility and sexual market value in their earlier years in hopes of gaining economic independence.
But the conditioned fear itself is contributing to them being less suitable for maintaining relationships... which means they're less likely to get a committed partner at all, on top of all the other forces working against them.
It is a point I keep coming back to. EVERY policy change in the past fifty years has favored women and their autonomy. You would EXPECT this to increase their comfort levels, and to increase their willingness to marry, since the risk of being left destitute is functionally nonexistent now. But lo and behold the exact opposite occurs. They're LESS comfortable... and LESS likely to marry. I don't know what you're supposed to do with a group who gets less satisfied the more privileges they're given.
As stated above, THEY ARE HEDGING AGAINST THE WRONG RISK. The risks associated with picking the wrong guy who abandons you in middle age (which can be mitigated!) are significantly smaller than the risks of delaying picking a partner at all.
Or so I argue.
Isn't it obvious? Take away their privileges. They will be happier, and marriage rate will go up. It's win-win.
More options
Context Copy link
Which makes this look like a positive feedback loop. And what you do is you stop responding in the way that perpetuates the loop. Which is why (in a related example) I get frustrated at people suggesting more maternity leave and subsidized childcare for working women and such as a way to increase TFR; the result of that is just the opposite.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link