This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Trump is calling for the arrest and trial of six Democrat lawmakers who posted a video telling the intelligence community not to follow unlawful orders,. The video claims that the current administration is threatening democracy and the constitution, and that the military "must refuse illegal orders."
Trump also apparently had another post that just said, "SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR, punishable by DEATH."
This is the first time I have genuinely increased the probability of a real civil war breaking out, this is an absolutely terrifying escalation by both sides. While the Democrats were hinting extremely obviously that the military / intelligence community should basically pull off a coup, I also think that Trump hinting back that they should be executed is way beyond the pale.
Hopefully we're still in nothing ever happens land? I for one do not want to live through a civil war.
From the context, I do not think that follows. There are plenty of situations where the correct response is just to say "No sir, I will not do that", without trying to dispose whoever gave the unlawful order.
Personally, I think the winning strategy for the Democrats is to wait Trump out. Time works for them. Few economists think that his tariffs will lead to economic success, the mid-terms are coming up, and without a majority in Congress MAGA will be much more limited in what they can do.
Sure, he will blow up more boats in the meanwhile, but blowing brown people up without a declaration of war has been a hobby of all presidents in this century so far, nobody really cares. And while sending his troops into cities which voted for Harris and deporting school students is not good, in the great scheme of things it is also not sufficient reason to end the American experiment with democracy. Established, traditional politicians are doing okay under the present system, and are hopefully reluctant to overthrow everything. I sincerely hope that most Democrats are smart enough to understand that a one-time surgical breaking of the constitution to get rid of Trump followed by business as usual will not work.
I am a bit more worried about the MAGA crowd, though. They are not your traditional Republicans who have thrived under the status quo for generations. Trump is certainly spending a lot more effort on placing loyal officers in charge than he was in his first term. One man's coup-proofing is another man's coup preparation. Frankly speaking, the Trump crowd has no regard for mos maiorum, for how things are done in politics, and while the chances that GWB would pull a Gracchi and run for a third term were basically nil, with Trump all things are possible.
I think the legitimacy principle of two terms only is far too strong- we're more likely to get a king than a president for life, and we're more likely to get a libertarian president than either.
An annointed Trump successor, on the other hand, is very plausible.
More options
Context Copy link
Eh. It's not that I'd put it past him if he were even just ten years younger - but that's just it, he isn't. Guy's old. By no means senile or at death's door, but you just don't pull this sort of shit at 82.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link