site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 15, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

So, I woodwork, and to keep the fear of merciless spinning metal teeth in me, I frequently watch woodworking safety videos. It's humbling listening to these woodworkers with 30 years experience talk about the time they accidentally fed their thumb through the tablesaw, or the heel of their hand through the jointer, or the tip of their pinky through the router.

99% of the stories start the same way. "I just had to make one more cut." They were in a rush, they were tired, they'd ticked off nearly every item on their todo list for the long day, and suddenly they realize they need one more piece rip cut. There is a safe way to do it, but they are so tired, and so exhausted, and they've done this so many times, they do it the unsafe way figuring it won't be a problem.

It turns out to be a big fucking problem.

Now woodworking is a physical as well as a mental task. There will be physical signs to your exhaustion and wavering judgement. If it's a hobby, you can just decide it's time to hang it up that day. If it's not, I guess that's why people lose thumbs.

A lot of these bugs in Rust code that keep going viral are stupid. But they also stink of a programmer utterly and thoroughly tapped out fighting the borrow checker. So mentally exhausted at the endless walls put up between the simple task they have to do that they've been working through one by one, that at the end of 8 hours their judgement is so impaired they decide "Fuck it, it's just one line of code, it doesn't need to be safe."

I do wonder if we'll start to see more and more problems with Rust code. Not problems caused by negligence, but problems caused by sheer exhaustion. Negligence can be fixed. Exhaustion I'm less certain about.

There is a safe way to do it, but...they've done this so many times, they do it the unsafe way figuring it won't be a problem.

This reminds me of the last time I worked in a rural setting as a junior. A nurse nonchalantly alerted me to a patient who she described as having had a laceration with some circular saw, with a demeanour suggesting that she thought the patient was a bit of a sissy and should've been told off and sent home.

I took a look at the wound and immediately blanched -- this man's second and third digits of his dominant hand was so obviously degloved that I can't imagine how the nurse could've seen the wound and called it a laceration, the subcutaneous tissue on both fingers was really trying its best to invent a new form of codex.

The only explanation I could think of how she could've given me that handover was that she didn't look at the wound at all and decided to short-cut the decision-making process after hearing a one-sentence summary of the history from the patient's wife.

I don't really have anything to say about the programming side of things, just wanted to share a story that also incidentally includes a woodworking incident and someone trying to take the easy way out.

A lot of these bugs in Rust code that keep going viral are stupid. But they also stink of a programmer utterly and thoroughly tapped out fighting the borrow checker. So mentally exhausted at the endless walls put up between the simple task they have to do that they've been working through one by one, that at the end of 8 hours their judgement is so impaired they decide "Fuck it, it's just one line of code, it doesn't need to be safe."

This isn't the way safety people think. They think the problem is not that people are tired of fighting their burdensome safety measures and so bypass them; they think the problem is that it's possible to bypass their safety measures, and so see this as reason to put in more controls.

That's not my objection to Rust -- Rust was created by and is controlled by my Culture War enemies, who inject their beliefs into their actions a lot more than even Richard Stallman ever did. But it is an objection to Rust.

Sounds almost like you're advocating SafeStart: Coding Edition.