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Notes -
Just to make a general observation about the gender war as a followup to my comment on the Promise Keepers organization:
I think we can generally observe is that women’s main complaint about men is that desirable hetero men are unwilling to exclusively commit. If we accept this, we can also see that this is actually two complaints rolled into one. 1. The men that are willing to commit are undesirable (icky, clingy, lame, “chopped”, entitled, toxic, porn-addled, skinny fat etc.). 2. The men that are desirable are unwilling to commit. (On a tangent I’d argue that most of the lipstick feminist complaints made in the mainstream media by middle-class women about men in general do usually boil down to the rather similar complaint that 34-37-year-old successful, well-paid, charismatic, tall, ambitious etc. urban men are in no rush to marry 31-34-year-old college-educated middle-class office worker women.)
If we look at this logically, to the extent that it even makes sense to try doing so (which is a valid question in itself), there are two potential remedies for this problem. 1. Focus on the undesirable men that are willing to commit and somehow transform them into desirable men i.e. alphaize the betas 2. Focus on the desirable men and incentivize them to commit i.e. betaize the alphas.
Now I don’t know about you but to me it seems self-evident that #2 has more potential for success no matter how you look at it and yet virtually everyone who makes any sort of recommendations regarding this entire issue (and that does not only include Red Pillers) is promoting #1. No, really – I’ve never seen anyone advocate for #2, not even the Promise Keepers or, for that matter, any other similar group that does not claim to be feminist and is at the same time pushing the nebulous concept of a new positive masculinity.
Am I seeing things that are not there or is this really not the case? Because as far as I can tell, it is. It seems like there is a general unspoken consensus in society that trying to compel sexually successful men to commit to women is a completely impossible, pie-in-the-sky idea that deserves no attention at all; that, in other words, expecting modern women to elicit commitment from the men they are attracted to is laughable lunacy.
FWIW that's not my impression. My impression is that women's main complaint men is unwanted sexual attention.
Neither of these solutions is workable. For one thing, as the saying goes, hypergamy floats. If all men were tall, modern Western women would perceive 6'0" as "icky." For another, there is a strict mathematical limit on the number of women who can be the beneficiaries of alpha male commitment. For the average woman, no amount of general cultural or policy changes will get her (monogamous) commitment from a highly desirable man.
I agree, and part of the problem with modern dating culture is that society tries to accommodate women's childish desires. Actually, this also applies to unwanted sexual attention. For one thing, women tend to exaggerate this issue as a flex. For another, women, generally speaking, object to sexual attention from men they deem unattractive no matter what the circumstances, no matter how polite or respectful the man is. At the same time they love and want sexual attention from men they deem desirable. How's this supposed to work given that men can't know in advance whether any given woman will find them desirable? The answer is that it can't.
Everyone has desires that are childish, contradictory, and unreasonable. The difference with women is that society actually takes those desires seriously.
Good point, but I'd file this under "the men that are willing to commit are undesirable", as I assume the great majority of the men giving away all that unwanted sexual attention would be willing to commit.
Well, you see, they're supposed to just get it i.e. magically know in advance.
I think you underestimate the myopia of male horniness here.
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