site banner
PaperclipPerfector  6d ago (text post)   1712 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for January 4, 2026

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

1
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

So, what are you reading?

I'm picking up Bly's Iron John: A Book About Men.

Finished Tom Clancy’s Patriot Games. Good God, I have so much to say about this one. All the same Clancyisms as Red October. Not nearly as much charm. A glacial plot where the many characters shuffle around like communist zombies until they reach their assigned stations. Hilarious, often but not always on purpose.

Thing is, this book captures a certain worldview, one where bad guys only exist because the good guys have their hands tied. I’m convinced that it offers insight into the general neocon project as well as our current iteration of populism. I wish I’d kept notes of all the passages I want to quote for the motte.

Also finished Sarah Waters’ Fingersmith, a very gay Victorian crime novel. An orphan thief takes part in a plot to marry and defraud a secluded heiress. I found the prose delicious and the plotting devious. High points for characterization, as well, with each member of the cast stressed and miserable for extremely different reasons. Would recommend.

Current book is O’Brien’s Master and Commander. Also very British, though sixty years earlier. Totally not gay, no sir, not in His Majesty’s navy.

Love the historical context. Love the jargon and the repartee and the bizarre economics of prize-hunting. Above all, love the personalities of these dedicated, skilled characters playing off one another as they get into life or death situations. Perhaps this is the peak of “guys hanging out” fiction.

Tom Clancy was one of my favorite authors growing up; I read all his stuff up through Rainbow Six, and I'd say it definitely shaped my worldview, first in a "this is how the world is" way as a kid and teenager, and then contrasting the backlash as reality intruded as an adult. Favorite books were Without Remorse, Clear and Present Danger, and the Sum of All Fears. Even looking back without rereading them, there's a ton of passages that look very, very different from an adult perspective than as a naive kid, and I've often thought you could use his books as a pretty good example of why the political world he portrayed has collapsed so badly since.

Yes! Yes, exactly.

Setting aside the bizarre pacing of Patriot Games, it’s still founded on Cold War principles. Clancy (by way of Jack Ryan) tries to rehabilitate these principles for use against something that isn’t a nuclear superpower. But he writes thrillers, not philosophy, and it just doesn’t come together at all.

Spoilers, obviously, for a nearly 40-year-old novel.

The terrorists are set dressing for a meandering slice-of-life novel. Jack recovers in hospital. Jack meets famous people. Jack assembles Christmas presents. Jack does insider trading. Real plot points!

Eventually he is convinced to join the intelligence community’s terrorist manhunt. This leads directly to the only real conflict in the book. Everything before and after has obvious answers. Is it okay to disarm and shoot a terrorist? Are drugs bad? What about communists? Should you be prepared to defend your family when all else fails? Easy questions. But the question which actually haunts Jack Ryan is whether it’s okay to execute captured terrorists without a public trial. Since, you know, the jury might be swayed from the right outcome.

Wait, that’s not quite right. Jack can’t decide if he should feel bad for contributing to such extrajudicial executions. Partly because he’s an unapologetic believer in democracy and individual rights, partly because one of the terrorists had tits visible from orbit.

Jack talks himself into it by reasoning that terrorists, like pirates, are hostis humani generis. When possible, they should get the usual protections, but if that keeps them from their just deserts, we shouldn’t feel too bad. They waived their rights when they tried to hide behind them; we only extend them back as a courtesy.

This is just—so—aaarrrrggggghh. It misses the whole point. And it’s easy to see the throughline to the War on Terror, the general expansion of the executive, all the way through to Trump II. Sweep the hard problems aside. Nothing is impossible if we stop holding back. Do the right thing, critics be damned. We’ll make it legal or at least shield you from any consequences.

I understand the appeal. We can just do stuff, or at least pick a guy who will totally do that stuff on your behalf. It’s easier than working out the details.

And here we are.

I just have to point out a clever joke in the title that almost no one notices. The Patriot Game is the title of a pro-Republican Northern Irish ballad that was popular during the Troubles. There are a lot of versions, but one of the most popular ones was by two Irish brothers named Liam and Tom Clancy.

The song is not simply uncomplicated pro-IRA, it's set in the period of the Old IRA (before the Troubles, though in the transitional period between the War of Independence/Civil War of the 20s and the resurgence in the 60s/70s).

Written by Dominic Behan, who came from a Republican family and whose brother, Brendan Behan, was arrested in Britain for being part of a bombing campaign in the 30s, it is based on a true event and is told from the viewpoint of a young IRA volunteer who was raised on, and believes, the romantic idealised version of Irish-British history and the Republic and the armed struggle, and who dies in what is practically a pointless attack. As he lies dying he questions does this really achieve anything or benefit anyone?

The Clancy Brothers did do the definitive version, but other Irish groups like The Dubliners covered it also.

The tune is mentioned most of the way through the book, but I had no idea any Clancys were involved. TIL.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats