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There is literally no reason to believe this. These lesbians were there specifically to obstruct ICE, there is no reason to think a little politeness will suddenly make them compliant.
She was there specifically to obstruct law enforcement. She ignored their orders to get out of the car. She tried to flee straight through an ICE agent walking directly in front of her car. On what dishonest leftist planet is ANY of this blameless?
It is shocking to me that even on the sacred Motte, of all places, even in the face of incontrovertible video evidence we still have to deal with insane leftist sophistry and blatant lies.
One is reminded of a certain relevant quote:
To be clear, when I say "in this video", I mean that she did nothing to escalate the situation in this video, up until the point where she had both the agent and her wife yelling at her. As I say, your opinions on ultimate blame will somewhat depend on who you think is responsible for creating this conflict in the first place.
I do not feel like you are viewing this person as a fully realized human rather than an undifferentiated member of your outgroup. Normal, well-adjusted people don't generally ignore polite but firm requests from cops, and I have no reason to think she was anything but a normal, well-adjusted person who made a dumb decision in a moment of panic. Honestly I find it pretty ludicrous to imagine that this situation would have ended up with someone dead if the agents had behaved like normal well-trained cops, and I think you should re-examine your biases if you believe otherwise. Leftists are not generally crazed lunatics who are unable to respond to incentives.
I do not understand how your reaction to my post where I state that the agent was probably justified to shoot her is to start ranting about insane leftist sophistry and quoting Hitler. Good to see the Motte hasn't changed since I used to post on Reddit.
Going to a 'protest' to blockade government activity is not the action of a normal, well-adjusted person. You may think it's a good thing! Necessary, maybe even sacred, whatever. But not normal and well-adjusted.
Situation much like this one have happened possibly dozens of times, maybe hundreds or thousands if we broaden the category, over the last 10 years in this country, and very few of them end this way. It's less about the specific training (even if it was inadequate) and that every such interaction is rolling a handful of D20s: how does the subject react, how does the officer react, what are the environmental factors making them react better/worse, etc. This encounter rolled too many 1s.
If you expect perfection in every single encounter, you are not living in reality.
Likewise, living in Minneapolis, the victim of this tragedy was not living in reality.
Not sure I understand what you're saying. Of course this situation required a confluence of factors to end how it did. But I believe one of those factors is that ICE agents are regularly escalating situations that could be deescalated (many such cases in videos coming out of Minneapolis). I assume this is some combination of top-down direction, poor training, and internal culture. It would be better if this wasn't the case.
This seems delusional to me. They are dealing with people who are committed to using escalation as a tactic. There is almost no chance de-escalation techniques will do anything other than aid the obstruction.
Just as an example, why at 43 seconds into this video does an agent smash the passenger window of the car? What possible reason is there for that?https://old.reddit.com/r/ICE_Watch/comments/1qc21p8/ice_abducted_a_woman_trying_to_get_to_a_doctors/
Why does this agent push a man nearly in front of a bus? Is that what you would consider reasonable protocol to use to arrest someone who is doing nothing but standing in front of your car? Surely the first step would be to tell them they are being arrested? https://old.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/1q9xczh/ice_pushes_man_into_oncoming_traffic/
You don't have to be under arrest for a police officer to be able to issue you a lawful order to exit a vehicle or move out of the way. If you decide you don't want to, then you are obstructing and that is legitimate cause for arrest.
Often, police don't like announcing someone is under arrest until they are in custody or at least a controlled situation, because it tends to increase the odds that someone will flee or start to fight.
So, in the first case, it's hard to say for sure but it's plausible that this woman has been given lawful orders to exit her vehicle and not done so. The next step is forcible removal, which necessitates breaking the window if it is rolled up.
In the second case, shoving someone out of the way who is deliberately obstructing them is perfectly reasonable, and a lesser use of force than arresting then. The proximity of the bus is less than ideal, but mistakes are inevitable.
Pulling someone out of the driver's seat of a car requires smashing their passenger side window?
Generally, if they're cooperative enough to unlock it for you, they would already have been cooperative enough to get out.
ETA: Much safer for the driver to smash the passenger side window.
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