This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
All well and good so long as we remember that "Merit" as measured by IQ is just the ability to do well in school and learn complicated things. It is not some end, just a talent like hand-eye coordination.
As to the rest, the absolute best any non-elite can ever hope for from the universe or a test is blind fairness. Anyone who thinks we can weight things one way or the other to offset "privilege" is just building a privilege generator.
Would be awkward for everyone if IQ positively correlates with other positive traits not immediately connected to taking tests.
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/study-links-childrens-eye-hand-coordination-with-their-academic-performance.html
Brain do work gooder faster, affect many thing.
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA525579.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Alpha
Most positive traits correlate somewhat. So do most negative ones.
The problem with intelligence is that it makes you retarded. Smart people can convince themselves of anything, and thus lose connection with reality in proportion to how smart they are.
Take Scott's most recent post on child rearing for an obvious example. He's the smartest person I've ever met personally, and he's a tard.
Boy, I don't know how much time you spend around not smart people, but I promise you it's all worse on average.
I think you have to take a wildly uncharitable interpretation of what Scott wrote to think he's therefore bad at child rearing.
Would I personally indulge my toddler quite so much? No, but it sure was funny to read about. My little girl isn't quite so ridiculous, yet.
I think there are certain brain worms that target a certain level of intelligence, but it's not like it gets worse as you get to super geniuses relative to say 115.
Bertrand Russell was a pacifist and Albert Einstein endorsed socialism explicitly. These are views I consider immensely retarded due to overwhelming theoretical and empirical evidence against them. Motivated reasoning effects everyone, and smart people perhaps find more territory to get lost in than a more average person.
But overall there's basically no known tradeoffs with higher intelligence. There are not a set number of character points. Life isn't fair.
The empirical evidence against socialism during Einstein's day wasn't quite there. Animal Farm was a speculative novel at the time, not known as prescient.
Well, super duper extra embarrassing given my user name. But was Animal Farm not an allegorical criticism of Stalin? Like the badness was known?
Again, sorry if I misremember, I've used this handle on various parts of the internet for literally longer than I can remember.
It was written before the badness was widely known- and intended as an intra-socialist critique based on the behavior of Stalinists who fought alongside Orwell(in a different socialist faction) in the Spanish civil war.
So not speculative from Orwells perspective, who already recognized the hazards and badness of at least Stalinism. But not yet recognized as a prescient critique of repeated failures of general socialism.
I don't think that's contradictory to what I recall. Maybe it's time for a re-read anyway.
He actually couldn't get it published originally- the critique of communism was considered verboten by progressive publishing houses, but he was too left wing for rightist publishers.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link