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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   31093 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 12, 2026

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I agree that certain false positive rates are acceptable when enforcing the law (up to but not past the point of conviction/sentencing at least). I disagree that certain false positive rates are acceptable when forming a mob. This is not hypocrisy.

But the problem isn't in the false positive rates, the problem is the methodology of accosting random people in public. I can point to official statistics about ICE to demonstrate that this is not their methodology. I do not have comparable statistics for Anti-ICE protestors, but I can point to them literally doing the methodology they accuse ICE of in broad daylight.

There's a degree of equivocation though. The worst thing the mobs you described did was mildly irritate people for periods lasting up to five minutes (if I'm being generous). The feect on one guy was that there was a parade of cars behind him honking, which happens to anyone who drives in rush hour on a daily basis. It's not nothing, but it isn't in the same league as being detained for a day or more. The acceptable false positive rate you're really looking for is the number of people who were accosted by ICE but weren't detained.

  • -13

The worst thing the mobs you described did was mildly irritate people for periods lasting up to five minutes

I have grown convinced in the last couple of weeks that one of the defining characteristics of being on the left is a total lack of a theory of mind.

Mildly irritated? I can think of a few ways that I would feel if I were surrounded by a mob directing hostilities at me, and I don't think "mildly irritated" would describe any of them. "Legitimately fearing for my personal safety" would probably be a much better description. That seems to be not only a reasonable thing to feel in that situation, but also, the actual intent of the people engaging in this behavior.

As a resident of the Minneapolis area these sorts of scenes are the reason I will not go into Minneapolis for the foreseeable future, simply because I would feel absolutely justified in drawing a firearm to defend myself, but the "jury of my peers" would consist entirely of people like you who apparently think that I'm only supposed to be "mildly irritated" that a group of angry people have surrounded me.

The acceptable false positive rate you're really looking for is the number of people who were accosted by ICE but weren't detained.

That would be closer to analogosity, but I don't think it quite reaches; someone hassled but not detained by ICE still has it worse, because of the implication.

"Because of the implication" cuts both ways. The mob is perfectly capable of attempting murder, just look at what happens to Jake Lang yesterday.

I agree that certain false positive rates are acceptable when enforcing the law (up to but not past the point of conviction/sentencing at least).

And past it too - in a lot of cases, we won't have definitive proof, and part of that means that we will occasionally put the wrong person in jail.

Yeah, but I'm slightly less ok with that. Not 100% less ok, just slightly and it isn't really necessary to the point if we're comparing false positives on detainees.

I agree that certain false positive rates are acceptable when enforcing the law (up to but not past the point of conviction/sentencing at least). I disagree that certain false positive rates are acceptable when forming a mob. This is not hypocrisy.

In that case it doesn't matter if the mob is harassing or assaulting ICE or non-ICE folks.

Which implies that the examples you gave are not relevant.

The examples I gave in the OP had nothing to do with a false positive rate. I'll repeat:

But the problem isn't in the false positive rates, the problem is the methodology of accosting random people in public. I can point to official statistics about ICE to demonstrate that this is not their methodology. I do not have comparable statistics for Anti-ICE protestors, but I can point to them literally doing the methodology they accuse ICE of in broad daylight.

You wrote:

The irony of it all is that this is what anti ICE groups are accusing ICE of doing. Going to places and harassing people based off of stereotypes without any legal authority to do so. Demanding evidence to prove that someone belongs here.

I'm sure ICE has done exactly this -- going to a place they suspect removable aliens to be present and demanding evidence.

I'm sure ICE has other operations where they target specific removable aliens on which they have prior information too.

Seems very similar unless you are really resting the justifiability argument cited.

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