site banner
PaperclipPerfector  2d ago (text post)   1860 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for January 25, 2026

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

1
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I am vaguely aware of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, but haven't ever read the source material or a good translation.

Anyone have any suggestions? As I've declaimed and disclamed before, my Chinese is limited to nihao-ing at some fine ABGs. A solid translation, or visual media would be fine. Subs or dubs, don't care. It just has to be faithful to the source

I read the very first English translation by Brewitt Taylor, which was perfectly readable even though it was Wade-Giles romanisation. Per Wikipedia, a 1991 translation by Moss Roberts largely superseded that one as the definitive English localization.

It's a very dense novel with thousands of named characters. Not something I'd recommend to someone that wasn't either a sinophile or familiar with the setting through video games or other media already.

If you want a simple introduction to the setting, it's hard to beat Dynasty Warriors 7 or 8 because they have a route for every major faction, including Jin. Everything else tends to focus more on chronological order which I think is way more confusing than just strictly following one side because there are a lot of characters.

There's also Team Ninja's Wu Long which is set in Three Kingdom and starts off with the Yellow Turban Rebellion. Team Ninja made Nioh 2 which is one of my favourite games of all time, and Wu Long is pretty similar except with more of a parry focus, I haven't played the game beyond the demo though.

I would also second the recommendation for the 2010 series, it is very long, at times dry, boring, especially the parts with Diaochan(Lu Bu is more like a bratty child in this show) but overall is really solid. Cao Cao is the best part, and he has a ton of great scenes.

I mean... it's really long, and really old, and really Chinese. It's not something you can just read casually. It's practically a whole field of study in itself.

I grew up playing Koei games like the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" series. If you're... a certain sort of nerd, you'll appreciate them. The downside is, they sort of assume you already know the story, so they can be confusing. But they'll still give you part of the story, and a good appreciation for the overall strategic situation and map.

"Dynasty Warriors" is more story based. It's pretty much nonsense, but it gives a good sense for the myths and legends, which is what most people remember it for anyway.

For a slightly more academic approach, I really enjoyed this blog series: Chinese history for white people. Still very limited and oversimplified, but it's a good read.

Beyond that, I think you just have to read Wikipedia articles about the specific people and battles involved. Or commit yourself to learning Chinese lol. I think it's still lacking in proper English-language material.

My introduction to romance of the 3 kingdoms was Dynasty Warriors (I think 3) and I learned beyond a shadow of doubt that Lu Bu is not to be trifled with.

Also my poor pronunciation means seeing Cao Pi's name (which I read as cow pie) always gets a giggle from me.

See, for me, it was playing the strategy game "Romance of the 3 Kingdoms" series on NES. Which tells you absolutely nothing about these characters except their stats. You can recruit all of them, but there's a hidden loyalty stat for how the story is supposed to go. So I kept trying to recruit Lu Bu because he had the best combat stat, and he kept on betraying me XD. I suppose that's a very authentic experience to the story!

Thanks! I had a look at the Substack, and while it's a decent glossary and dramatis personae, I was looking for something less dry. But it's useful context.

Sadly the gameplay of Dynasty Warriors is the opposite of what I'm into. I know Total War Three Kingdoms is solid, but due to severe mismanagement, it barely gets into the actual meat of the Three Kingdoms period.

I'll keep hunting, while I think there's a real chance of a Chinese Century, learning Chinese from scratch sounds rather daunting. I've translated entire Xianxia novels with AI with excellent results, so in theory I could do that if I had to.

Thanks! I had a look at the Substack, and while it's a decent glossary and dramatis personae, I was looking for something less dry. But it's useful context.

Just to clarify that you're looking for the novel, Romance of the Three Kingdoms (三國演義 sanguo yanyi), rather than the actual history, Records of the Three Kingdoms (三國志 sanguozhi)?

I'm aware that the novel takes a few liberties and "romanticizes" historical events, but is still reasonably grounded. I'd honestly be fine with either, though if I had to choose it would be the Romance.

Much of the cultural relevance and memes (in the Dawkinsean sense) from the Three Kingdoms can be found from the Romance, so if getting a background on that is what you're after then the Romance is definitely a better fit, as the culmination of a thousand years of dramatised retellings of the period. You're not going to get things like Zhuge Liang borrowing ten thousand arrows from the actual history.

I'm not sure if there even is an English translation of the Records.

If you can’t read Chinese, there’s not much point in reading the actual history book. It is a great book, well written by Chinese history book standard, but it is a biography of a hundred different people, each presented in chronological order within their own lives. Without already knowing the broader historical timeline, it’s hard to connect them to one another. On top of that, it’s written in classical literary Chinese, which is hard even for native Chinese readers. Romance of the Three Kingdoms is written in vernacular Chinese and should be much more accessible, though I’m not sure how much that classical vs vernacular distinction survives in English translations.

Playing the games honestly sounds more reasonable. That said, with the games (and with romance of the three kingdom itself, since it’s a novel) it becomes hard to tell what’s actual history and what’s fictionalized. Not that it matters too much.

This video gives a good overview of your options as far as Three Kingdoms adaptations go.

Thanks!

I'll admit most of my Romance of the Three Kingdoms knowledge comes from 100%ing a few Dynasty Warriors games when I was growing up, but that does actually give you familiarity with the major players.

I'm aware of the franchise, but the gameplay isn't quite up my alley. I do already have passing familiarity with the major players, though I'm not sure I could name Lu Bu's horse (White Rabbit? Idk) haha. Maybe I'll check out a YouTuber who does cinematic play throughs, that might help. Thanks!

Red Hare

Honestly it's a weird one as well since it's such an extended saga. I know the first half of the story but the bits after the first generation get very vague.

Total War: Three Kingdoms also works.

The recent Chinese TV series from 2010 used to be available on Youtube with subtitles - it looks like it isn't for me anymore, but it may in your region. Needless to say, it's comically long but has entertainingly cheesy and mid-budget acting, and that gets the 'vibe' across well even if it's not the most artistically accomplished.

Thanks! It doesn't seem to be available here either, though the 1994 series is. Is that any good or should I go hunting?

The 1994 version, from what I hear, is the most faithful to the original novel, but suffers occasionally from pacing issues.

(I haven’t seen any of the TV series as I read it in text)

The 2010 version is receiving mockery and dismissal on Chinese social media constantly. One of the biggest meme generators actually. I think the show itself is ok, if you treat it as a story on its own unrelated to the actual history and the novel.

The 1994 version is fantastic, a perfect balance between the director’s own interpretation and the material it based itself on. Music is great, casting is legendary, but it’s filmed three decades ago.

Out of curiosity what did they do to the story to make the 2010 show such a meme?

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats