This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The presumption of competence is a rather... generous for an admin that ran DOGE.
Of course, it's all a hidden 200 IQ play. They're only pretending to be retarded. My opinion is that Minnesota was chosen not because it's an actual hotbed of illegal immigration, but as a show-of-force, to "own the libs".
Why are you holding up DOGE as a example of "incompetence"?
Same question for @curious_straight_ca.
Their goal was 1 to 2 trillion in budget cuts, they achieved 0.2, maybe maybe as little as 0.1.
I want the federal budget to be cut by 90%. Roads, justice, trade policy, standards of weights and measures, diplomacy, coinage, a post office, a defense force for a regional power and nukes and a Navy to prevent invasions of the US.
Let blackwater or anyone else who wants to have a go at it have a letter of marque to provide freedom of the seas. Pay bounties for the heads of anyone who messes with American flagged shipping. Let private charity or the states deal with the poor (with state taxes).
100 billion here and there, pretty soon you're talking about real money though -- if it saved more than it cost I wouldn't say it's a failure per se?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Doge was successful. It didn't cut the budget (which is mostly wealth transfers) but it did cut a lot of sinecures for leftists and disrupt the operations of many taxpayer funded left wing activist organizations.
I agree with your assessment of what they achieved. But why wouldn't they say that's the point of the organization in the first place? Because hurting those who look down their noses at the unwashed masses (cutting sinecures) would surely be red meat for the base. And disrupting the wasteful operation of many taxpayer funded activist organizations would have even broader appeal, regardless of political valance.
I think the reason is because Musk vastly overestimated his own intelligence, skill and worldliness. He really thought he could easily find 1-2 TRILLION dollars because he believed he knew how to run large organizations leanly and easily ferret out inefficiency and waste. And he could do it with a handful of young, techy types. Turns out he didn't understand the several orders of magnitude difference in size and complexity.
And for that reason I can't agree with you that DOGE was successful. I really wish they were. They had some great ideas.
There's also the claim that they really were successful because the entire point of the operation was simply to steal petabytes of protected information and install backdoors throughout the government. The whole cutting waste schtick was a ruse. I don't personally subscribe to that idea, but it has legs.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link