This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Ed Gein, infamous for exhuming corpses from nearby graveyards so that he could fashion a "woman suit" resembling his deceased mother and literally crawl inside "her", was arrested in 1957. The case inspired Robert Bloch's 1959 novel Psycho (the film adaptation came out the following year) and Thomas Harris's 1988 novel The Silence of the Lambs. The latter novel bent over backwards to clarify that its villain, Jame Gumb, is not actually transgender (the 1991 film adaptation wasn't quite as emphatic, but still includes a line of dialogue in which Hannibal Lecter explicitly states that Gumb only thinks he's a transsexual, but isn't really).
This actually strikes me as a case which an American in the 1950s would have a much easier time comprehending than a modern American. A modern American hears about a cross-dressing man with breast implants and far-right opinions committing a horrendous act of violence and splutters "this is statistically rare, trans people are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators*, anyway how do we know he was really trans". An American in the 1950s would hear about a man committing a horrendous act of violence, read that he also enjoyed cross-dressing and had received breast implants, and would think "well, that checks out. The writing was on the wall."
*As pointed out by Freddie deBoer in the context of mental illness, this claim is true, but vacuously so: violent crimes are committed by such a small minority of individuals that "[demographic] is more likely to be the victim of violence than the perpetrator" is true of literally every demographic you care to mention: men, women, old people, young people, white people, black people, trans people, cis people.
In general views on transsexuals before the 2010s were either similar to or more tolerant than those on gay men. The extreme example for the latter case is obviously the Iranian situation but I think a lot of mainstream American media in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s was also broadly sympathetic to people we would today call transwomen. Even many examples of the ‘trans panic’ thing often framed the transwoman sympathetically if present-day politically incorrectly, like Chandler’s dad in Friends.
Ages ago, when I was on an Internet Atheist board, a trans woman showed up, and started arguing for proto-SJW/woke ideas. The kind of shit they got in response, from all the Obama-loving liberals that the forum consisted of, would get people banned from here let alone any mainstream space. This was either late 00's or early 10's.
People definitely were not more tolerant them than of gay people.
Did they object because the person was a trans woman or because they were arguing for proto-SJW/woke ideas?
The proto-woke ideas were related to trans issues so it's kinda hard to tell. One interaction that got stuck in my mind went something like:
Would you sleep with a trans woman?
Sure! As long as it washes itself.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link