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The problem is the Jews did do a lot of the things the right accuses them of. We are just the big party that can be transactional.
Israel and their backers did run a blood libel against white identity using the holocausts as justification. And they did a very good job of it. The ADL was the primary Jewish interest group and they’ve been promoting the blood libel for decades. I can understand how they thought that was in their best interests but today we need a new deal.
Like what specifically? I mean, of course there are Jews that did any particular shit. There are Jewish thieves, Jewish rapists, Jewish murderers, Jewish terrorists, Jewish gangsters, Jewish anything you like. There are a lot of Jews, a lot of them are very smart, and if one also happens also to be a psychopath, you'll get yourself a very prominent criminal or a communist leader or something like that. But I'd like to figure out, what exactly is the problem about which we're talking here.
That's not true. Israel had never been an active participant in US culture wars. Especially not in the Great Awokening, which had been thoroughly infested with violent hate for Israel. It is true that some of the Jewish organizations - like ADL - shamefully, used the Holocaust as justification for their left-wing propaganda, but Israel had nothing to do with it, and most of the Jews neither endorsed it nor had any influence on the matter. ADL is not some kind of Jewish representative, it is just a bunch of grifters whose grift happens to be in being Jews and serving Democrats. Other Jews can't really do much about it.
No it wasn't, and it certainly isn't. They were a bunch of loudmouths who were somewhat listened to because they weren't obviously corrupt, and now that it's obvious they are, they are about as representative as Naturei Karta. One can say they are "a" Jewish group, that's true, but nowhere even near "the primary" Jewish group, especially once they sold their soul to the woke. That is not exclusively Jewish phenomenon - organizations like ACLU, EFF, Greenpeece, and many others suffered the same fate, once they were maybe a left-leaning, but fundamentally sound organizations with a cause, which can be agreed or disagreed, but there was a proper cause, one which people could talk about without buying into the whole woke package. Now they are just skinsuits that the woke left wears when it's tactically convenient. ADL now happens to be a Jewish woke skinsuit, but that's where its connection with the Jewishness ends.
And if you want to make practical gains in luring Jews into MAGA, you message should not be "ADL are Jews, therefore all Jews are the same and as bad as the worst of ADL". That's just doing the same shit the left is doing to you. And I mean it can feel good, but does it work? Did it work on you when they called you a Nazi? Did you think "oh gosh, the Left called me a Nazi, I must rethink everything and change!" or did you think "fuck that noise, I am not listening to them anymore!"? If you want to do better, your message should be "ADL are Jews, but they are bad and lost the right to represent Jews in any way. Come here, my fellow Jews, let's unite under our umbrella of common sense and reject the bullshit ADL is peddling you!".
Denying the ADL after they are no longer useful. That’s like the CIA denying a spy after the fucked up. Of course you deny it now.
“The best funded Jewish group who were hardcore zionists - wasn’t us”
Whether Israel directly worked with them in messaging is a tough question. But Israel could have shut them down at any time. They are zionists. That’s like a the pope calling me and telling me I can’t do something anymore. I have to listen.
Nobody is "denying" anything. You are trying to pre-suppose you are correct and your opponents' arguments are illegitimate, this is not something that you get for free just because you want it. I described you in detail what is the deal with ADL - it was one thing, now it's a different thing. Things change. If you think what I described is not true, please address it on substance, not just resort to name calling.
No, it's not like that at all - nobody is "denying" ADL are Jews, and nobody is "denying" they fucked up.
I am not sure who you are quoting, so I am not sure I need to address that, unless you explain what do you mean.
No, it's not tough at all. It didn't. Israel has its own messaging, and the interest in participating in US culture wars in Israel is pretty much none. Israel has its own troubles. It is true that Israel values US as an ally greatly, and will do a lot to help keep US as an ally and keep the positive relations between US and Israel. But there are much better venues for that and ADL does not play a major role in it, especially the woke part of ADL.
No, it could not - Israel does not finance it and has no operational control over it. And, frankly, why would Israel shut down political activities of US citizens on US soil? Yes, they are zionists - but being zionist is not some chip that you install in your head that puts you under control of the Israeli government. Being zionists just means you don't think Israel must be destroyed. It's a pretty low bar - it is absolutely fascinating, to be honest, you even need a word for it. There's no word to call people that think Japan does not need to be destroyed. There's no word for people that think Morocco is a legitimate state that should exist. Pretty much any country on the face of Earth - sure, there might be people that want to destroy this country, haters gonna hate. But only for Israel there's a special word for people that don't think genocide is a good idea. For all other countries, these people are called "normal people". Such is the sad reality to which we are used. So yes, there are zionists. So what?
No, it's not like that at all. First of all, Jews don't have a pope and never did. Even within Judaism, even within the most Orthodox of the Ortodox Judaism (which in the minority of Jews) there's no such concept - if you bother to study about it, Judaism had always been a pluralistic religion, and propagation of the religious law could not be more dissimilar to what Catholics have. There literally can not be an analogue to Pope in Judaism (except for Moses once and the Messiah when he comes, of course, but beyond that, none). I am not saying this to say Catholics are wrong, just in Judaism things work very differently, that's a fact.
Second, of course, not all Jews are religious or Israeli or agree to what any particular Israeli government is doing (that's an understatement like saying when the bomb explodes not all the parts stay perfectly still in the same place). ADL has neither religious nor any other obligation to listen to anything anybody in Israel says, whether in power or not. Sure, they could cooperate with Israel when they think it makes sense for them - and they do. But voluntary cooperation and total control that you are implying are very different thing. They don't have to listen to anything. They may decide to listen, or may decide to ignore.
Now, the important part here - if you are still reading - going back to what started the conversation. If you want to get more Jews to be part of the MAGA movement - which I think is a good goal, as there is a lot of intersection between what most of the American Jews want and what most of the MAGA people want - then picking up how ADL hurt you and how much Israel is at fault for that is a useless activity. I mean, it may be attractive for you, but it is useless for reaching that goal. If you want to get more Jews voting for MAGA, then chanting "you are shit because ADL is shit and you are responsible for it!" is not going to do that. We can agree ADL has become shit. You can convince more and more Jews to stop listening to ADL on this basis - because nobody likes listening to shit, so if you can convince people ADL is a shitty organization now, you can get them to stop. But if you insist that ADL is the same as Jews and Israel, and forever has been, and forever will be - they you don't leave any common platform to stand on. How then would you enable the future cooperation?
Historical intelligence and sharing allegations: In the early 1990s, a major controversy arose when San Francisco police raided ADL offices, uncovering evidence of extensive spying on thousands of activists, organizations (including Arab-American groups, anti-apartheid activists, and others critical of Israel), and individuals. Court documents and reports indicated that some of this information was shared with Israeli government officials and intelligence agencies (including Mossad). The ADL settled related lawsuits without admitting wrongdoing, but sources like The Nation, MERIP, and others described it as part of close ties where the ADL provided data to Israel (and sometimes the U.S. State Department or FBI) on critics of Israeli policy.
Listen, you need to decide what you want. If you want to vent about how ADL hurt you, sure, go ahead. I mean, I don't care but you are free to do it, we're in a free country. I won't debate you about this because frankly out of all shit that is happening what information ADL shared in 1990s with Mossad is pretty low on my ladder of priorities, sorry, there are much more important (for me) things that are going on right now.
If you genuinely want to get smart Jews to join MAGA, then I am just telling you right now, starting with how ADL is bad because it supposedly spied on commies and/or Jihad activists in 1990s (ah the times where there were so few of them you needed to actually seek them out instead of just pointing at a random leftist!) and how all Jews are now tainted because of it - is not going to work very well. Just so when it does not work very well at all, you won't be surprised. I mean, out of all ways to get people to play on your side, you choose pretty bad ones so far. If you really want it (and not just using it as one more item on the list of why Jews totally suck) I'd probably try some other strategy.
Listen I’m Italian. When people look at genetic code I’m more related to ashkenazis than Anglos. So Jews are like my cousins. Doesn’t change fact I’m sick and tired of Jewish politics
I note besides the case of ADL in 1990s (which is not very political anyway), you didn't really mention anything specifically you're sick of. I mean, I am not happy about a lot of things Jewish Democrats do, I can make a long list, but this is my list. And I don't use terms like "Jewish politics" - beyond somewhat less virulent hate of Israel, the politics of Jewish Democrats is not different from the politics of any other Democrat (which is kinda exactly the problem). So, what is "Jewish politics" you are sick of?
Is there a difference between Democrats and Jewish Democrats?
They were the high agency smart people in the party. Aren’t they the ones pulling the strings and setting goals. Like MAGA started winning elections when the Democrats started replacing Jewish house wives with black females.
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