This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Nick Fuentes just tweeted this, surprised no discussion here (too much arguing about fascism?)
He was a very hot topic here a month or two ago, curious how our right leaning friends here are feeling about him/his thoughts as the ongoing right-wing divorce over Israel et al continues. I actually thought the right wing infighting a ~month ago had died down, but maybe it's coming back?
I think partially he's just engagement farming, but he was pretty explicit/firm in his views on his stream too. I'm not familiar enough with him to know how much he flip-flops on strong statements he makes a few days/weeks/months later.
I think there should be a way to punish politicians who tell you what they think you want to hear on the campaign trail and then do the exact opposite (or an indefensible watered down version of what they said; cf. Trump's actual actions on illegal immigrants) once they're elected. Fuentes evidently feels the same.
I think we're about twenty years too late on that, at the most conservative estimation. Campaign promises have long been "you'll get pie in the sky when you die". The sincere find out, when they do get elected, that inertia and a thousand other reasons are why they can't in fact push through the reforms they ran on (often single issue causes) and the cynical seasoned types know that you promise the rubes whatever they want to hear but nobody seriously expects you to do what you said (and if they do, you have those thousand reasons why it can't be done).
What really burned me on Obama was that while running, he was going to close down Guantanamo Bay which I thought was the only sensible damn thing to do with the mess, but once elected well oh dearie me can't be done, shouldn't be done. I had no great expectations about him but I did hope that as a liberal Democrat he at least would do that one thing. Well I got it reinforced not to trust any politician about the colour of daylight for sure, there.
Some people will just throw up their hands and say, "that's just the way it is now." Others will get mad and try to do something about it, no matter how impotent. I have no idea which approach is right, but I'm glad the second kind of people exist. We've got more than enough nihilism and helpless acquiescence.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link