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I don’t love the term “terrorism” here since the electronics were clearly aimed at military targets and not civilians. No one calls it terrorism when you bomb an army base but some collateral damage kills civilians too. Terrorism I think by definition is causing civilian harm to change politics.
I agree, but the basic playbook is (1) identify conduct which is perceived as being reprehensible; (2) falsely accuse Israel of doing it. Thus, the false accusations of "genocide," "apartheid," "terrorism," etc.
Israel obviously did genocide when the State was founded. And some elements of apartheid seem obviously true. Those it’s fine to say might makes right. I sort of believe segregation is good.
It's not obvious to me. Would you mind defining "genocide" for purposes of this discussion?
Similar question: What is "apartheid" and what are the elements?
I have found that in these types of discussions, Israel's critics tend to use a lot of loaded words and phrases such as "apartheid," "genocide," "Palestinian land," etc.
However I have found that these people are extremely reluctant to actually define these words and phrases. And the reason seems pretty obvious to me. There's no principled way to define these words and phrases such that (1) they yield the desired conclusion regarding Israel; while (2) they DON'T reach an undesired conclusion regarding large numbers of other countries/groups.
But perhaps this exchange will be different. So . . . .
You claim that Israel "obviously did genocide when the State was founded" What do you mean by "genocide"?
You claim that Israel has "some elements of apartheid" What do you mean by "apartheid" and what elements are you referring to?
This is obviously genocide. Palestinians didn’t leave Israel because they wanted to. They left because Jews were killing them. It’s backed by declassified Israel intel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight#:~:text=During%20the%201948%20Palestine%20war,an%20instance%20of%20ethnic%20cleansing.
Israel would never let political power shift to a point that Jews do not have overwhelming decision making ability. That’s apartheid.
Not sure why people need to insist Jews have never done anything bad. Or perhaps in this case normal things nation-states do to creat country’s.
I am making no claim that other country’s including the US haven’t done similar things. We genocide the Indian which I’m fine with.
Ok, so if some some or all members of Group A flee an area because some members of the same Group A are being killed by members of Group B, then it's "genocide" according to your definition. Agreed?
Ok, so if some Group A has control of a country; and that Group A is determined not to let any Group B undermine that control, it's "apartheid" according to your definition. Agreed?
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. Can you give a few specific examples of people "insist[ing] Jews have never done anything bad"?
I agree with the definitions you have described as genocide. The systematic killing of another group due to the it ethnicity is genocide.
Apartheid is a little stretching. One group has more rights than another group.
Ok, so under your definition of "genocide," it doesn't matter if a group (or part of a group) flees? Any time (1) some number people are killed; and (2) the killing was motivated significantly by the ethnicity of those people, then it's "genocide" under your definition?
Ok, so any time there is a country where one group has more rights than another group, it's "apartheid"? Do I understand you correctly?
Also, can you give a few specific examples of people "insist[ing] Jews have never done anything bad"?
The obvious example of this: “ Also, can you give a few specific examples of people "insist[ing] Jews have never done anything bad"?”
Would be you yourself. You are being highly critical and sarcastic about me staying Jews did genocide. There has long been a taboo that any criticism of Jews is antisemtic in America.
Why is it so hard for you to call the Nakba a genocide? For the most part I am a supporter of the Nakba.
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