This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
You don't think that Euros make similar witty remarks about each other's countries when talking about each other? It's just normal nationality-related bants. They may be unfunny, of course, as bants frequently are unfunny, being that people frequently are unfunny.
None of this matters. Pro-MAGA Americans seems to clutch to anecdotes about smug Europeans being smug to sidestep the fact that Europe currently has very obvious reasons to be angry at America - ie. doing things that America supposedly has wanted from Europe (hiking up defense spending, cutting immigration, taking more responsibility for Ukraine, European leaders going into a frankly embarassing effort to kiss Trump's ass personally in 2025 etc.) and have received, as a reward, scolding from Vance, tariffs, the Greenland affair and now a looming huge energy crisis caused by Trump's impulsive war in Iran.
No, they don't. Most europeans don't have any opinion about the healthcare systems or racial relations in other european countries, and would be a bit confused if you made a derogatory joke on the topic expecting them to join in.
There are some commonly understood stereotypes, like the French always being on strike or bureaucracy being bad in places like Italy. But if you made a humerous comment about something like that, the response would be something along the lines of "Haha yeah, I've heard it is pretty bad there". That's quite different from remarks about America which sound more like "Don't those morons realise that their system is terrible and they're stupid for not fixing it".
More options
Context Copy link
The seething contempt long predates Trump. It was like that in the 90s when I lived there.
Also, contrary to the European stereotype of Americans, we can tell the difference between good-natured ribbing and thinly veiled hostility. I have friends who rip on the U.S. in good fun. And I have acquaintances who clearly have a chip on their shoulder.
More options
Context Copy link
No, it's not. These things happen without an American even being present, and if anyone voiced an opinion to the effect of "come on, it's not so bad", they'd get immediately shat on, let alone if there was an American present, and fired a few shots back.
How about: two things can be true at the same time?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link