This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The last time I participated in this community I was in November. When as part of some discussion about how DnD had gone woke or something, /u/RandomRanger posted a very long comment where, to paraphrase, he said that black people were an inferior stupid race who bring crime and dysfunction wherever we go and that in order to stop the west from being "overrun" with blacks, white racists would need to "block" us in a way the didn't account for "international law" and "human rights". I replied calling him a cracker bitch and was temp-banned by the mods.
Now I know my outburst was against the rules, it was uncivil, I was reacting with anger, and I knew at the time I'd get banned for it. But I don't know, when I see someone essentially laying out a justification for bringing back slavery, how am I supposed to respond, as a black person? Am I expected to lay out some "well have you considered..."-ass intellectual rebuttal, Am I supposed to beg and plead for my own rights? "No sir, Please sir, I'm one of da good ones see!" I'm sorry but I don't have the patience for that
When made my first comment here where expressed profound distress over the possibly that HBD is real. I got a lot of responses along the lines of "well, what's it matter to you? you're an individual and population level statistics don't apply to you." I never thought that they applied to me. But when people in this community use HBD and crime statistics to argue that things Jim Crow and Apartheid were good and just and maybe should even be brought back THAT FUCKING AFFECTS ME. I'M BLACK
I remember another person asked me if I sincerely related to black underclass criminals and no I obviously don't but I relate to people like Toussaint Louverture, Malcolm X, Steve Biko. The intelligent black men who dedicated their lives to fighting the people who wanted to keep us in eternal subjugation for all the same goddamn reasons. And when I read what RandomRanger says about how society ought to forcefully disempower black people for the sake of having a "civilized" country. I'm reminded of the poem written by Claude McKay during Red Summer when white supremacists were terrorizing black people across America:
So bring it on! I don't care if we won't win but I'll FIGHT LIKE HELL for my people and if I die I know I'll have died a proud black man who stood for dignity instead of cowering negro who submitted to slavery. I'LL NEVER BE ACCEPT BEING A SLAVE!!!
It's very unlikely that slavery will come back for blacks, at least in the US. White TFR in both the US and Europe is sinking. Why? Feminism, cost of living, more educated women, contraceptives, the list goes on. Only in Africa is TFR still high, and it's possible that there will be substantial black African immigration to the US in the future to replace an increasingly aging white workforce.
You should be rejoicing over the current population trends. The US will be increasingly black, and it's not as if black people will choose to enslave their own tribe. Or actually, the US might be increasingly latino, so the risk is that latinos decide to enslave blacks.
Let me suggest a course of action to better secure the future for all blacks. With no sarcasm, just impregnate as many females as you can, focusing particularly on latino and white women. Impregnating white women reduces the threat of a a white majority eliminating the 13th amendment, like you fear. Impregnanting latino women is securing the near future, which is likely to be latino dominated. Latino TFR is dropping too, so after that it will just be black TFR maintaining the world population.
Mixed race children with black ancestry are often treated as just black. The larger tribe is usually safer, especially in a democracy.
TLDR:
Don't want to be a slave? Make your tribe bigger, embrace democracy. HBD says my tribe is dumb? Who cares, I impregnated your tribe's women, we are all my tribe now.
The black population in America is declining as a percentage. Immigration comes heavily from everywhere but Africa, the AADOS TFR is lower than the white TFR, etc.
Yes, very much so. US black TFR is low - but their TFR is not the one that matters, it's the black African TFR that will immigrate and likely assimilate into US black culture. US/Canada are immigrant powered capitalist countries traditionally powered by immigrant labor. Even though AI is reducing the need for some labor, AI will not replace blue collar labor anytime soon. If we AI can replace my roof and fix my plumbing, we are in a very different, nearly post-scarcity society.
When latino immigration and TFR eventually dries up, as it is already doing, the last source of able bodied blue collar workers will be from Africa. The US by then will be older, much more latino, and in need of immigrant labor that can only be sourced in sufficient numbers from Africa. No one else will be willing to do blue collar work. We see the first signs of this in Somali immigration to the US, who are highly incentived to immigrate for a better life, and they are working blue collar jobs Americans don't really want.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link