This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I honestly don't see how any of the three points you cite, and gamergate writ large, are in any way relevant here. Pragmata's Diana is a 1) robot 2) child that has no possible sex life to police, the "typical male fantasy" bit swiftly evokes the meme but otherwise AFAIK there's no wife to speak of so the entire point is moot (in fact I'd posit that feeling threatened by a rather ordinary fatherly-protector dynamic, or projecting any "wifely" duties onto the robot child, are both rather embarrassing self-owns), curbing a child's freedom to an extent is pretty much the definition of parenting, and A Plague Tale exists so child-deficient women are welcome to enjoy the medium at their leisure.
As for the cause of screeching, I think it's pretty obvious:
and funnyyoung femaleheh, MAPsvery neatly onto the evergreen "ackchyually she's a 500 year old dragon" tropeIt feels weird saying this as an admitted degenerate, but the entire """controversy""" feels like a complete nothingburger to me - unfortunately in the age of the gooner no petite/underage character is safe from uoh-posting and pedo
projectionsallegations, judging by the badge brouhaha even normies seem to have caught on the :crying_emoji: dogwhistle. I agree with @PutAHelmetOn that, since racism doesn't hit the same way anymore, pedophilia is very likely next up for a ride on the outgroup insult treadmill; as any sort of public-facing figure you will, or already do, have to be performatively disgusted by anything remotely "loli-coded" or be branded a closet pedo. As a gachatard I'm vividly reminded of the recent ""drama"" about Tiphera, a CZN character that had the temerity to be petite and almost-flat (while explicitly not a child) among a sea oftitcowswell-endowed characters, and accordingly has been the subject of much handwringing from the moment she was showcased, immortalized by a memetic Reddit mod melty and subsequent closing of ranks (why is it always Reddit mods?). To be entirely fair, unlike Diana that one also flashes you every time you choose her cards in battle, but she's also not a child, and that's really the norm by gacha fanservice standards.I'm actually surprised that this is the direction the internet decided to take with Pragmata, instead of what I assumed to be a more obvious and less explicit angle of relentlessly Shinzo-Abe-posting about blatant, egregious Japanese birth rate propaganda and emotional exploitation (seriously, you can't tell me that as a man you can look at things like this and don't feel a faint warmth in your chest). Alive internet theory continues to lose ground. I grant that some design choices stand out, as described above, but I feel like this is mostly done to give the robot child a distinctive/memorable outline and a certain degree of uncanny valley, at which IMO it succeeds.
A computer game featuring a nuclear family as characters, so a human adult woman as the wife and one or more human biological children (not androids), one where the player has to fulfill the role of the protector patriarch and husband, would obviously be much more effective ragebait to Blue Tribe online feminists, because in their view this is basically the full manifestation of the typical toxic male fantasy.
You’re right; in Pragmata there is no wife, and the child is an android and not a biological human. However, the player is still supposed to be the protector patriarch to this android, and is thus, according to the reasoning of Blue Tribers, designed to pander to the toxic fantasies of angry loser males who are otherwise mostly unfit to attract flesh-and-blood women and form families in the real world.
More options
Context Copy link
Ironically, I think Pragmata and what I've seen of the discourse may have once again confirmed to me that I'm not well-suited to being a parent. Looking at Diana, I feel nothing at all, other than slight annoyance at some of her antics. I'm not some deranged child-free lunatic raving about "crotch goblins" every other hour of the day, nor am I an anti-pedo crusader looking for nonces under my bed, but I honestly don't think I've ever seen a child below the age of like 10, fictional or otherwise, behaving like a child would, whom I didn't find mildly unpleasant and annoying.
You're not from a culture that emphasizes and values quiet children. It's a discipline process that is best started early and needs reinforcement now and then. It makes things easier for the adults, but is arguably not so great for the children.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Oddly enough, I feel that I'm protected from this game's superstimulus by interacting all day every day with a hyperstimulus in the shape of my own baby daughter. But I do admit it does look pretty cute.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link