This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It seems like everyone (except the victim) basically got what they wanted here. The defendant got a very lenient deal, the prosecutors are making a show of protesting but still get to count this as a successful conviction for their stats, and the state of California can use a limited prison spot on a criminal who poses an actual danger to the public. It's not like this guy is going to make a habit of murder by megaphone. It's hard to muster up much outrage when this was a one in a million unlucky outcome from a typical scuffle at a protest.
How is this case any different than the guy who got life in the United the Right accident. People protesting, chaos, scuffle followed by a dead guy.
The one who plays for the right team gets a month in prison. The one who plays for the wrong team gets life.
I don't know what video you're looking at that shows his car was struck before he accelerated, but in any case I don't see how that's relevant. There's no universe where you have a legal justification for starting a block away before driving into a crowd at 30 miles an hour.
This is one of those things from the great awakening that people just never knew.
Perhaps he should be guilty. Maybe it wasn’t enough of an attack to justify plowing. The case though wasn’t as clean cut as white supremacists plows thru crowd for no reason.
Personally I don’t see how they got reasonable doubt. No way to know what he thought was happening and sounded to me like he acted innocent after the incident.
Read my comment again. He was a block away from the crowd when he started accelerating towards it.
You'll have to post a link because I couldn't find any video showing that, but it doesn't matter. Even if someone starts shooting at me, it doesn't mean that I can just blindly accelerate forward without regard for anyone else's safety. At minimum, it's depraved indifference homicide, which is categorized as Second Degree Murder in Virginia. That's what he was originally charged with, until the prosecution found evidence of premeditation.
I can’t tell from video how fast he was going before accelerating. It does appear more acceleration occurred after his car was hit.
The premeditation evidence was weak. I’ve probably posted the same thing about plowing when protestors surround my car.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=pVkD7c2D6H0&ra=m
He was clearly attacked before hitting anyone. The video angle changes makes it hard to pick up speed.
Am I reading you correctly? If your life is in danger by a mob let’s even say your family is in the car and they shoot at you that you would not accelerate to escape?
I don’t think he should get off completely for self-defense. Because a bat isn’t a gun. So even if he thought he was under attack he was wrong, but it should mitigate it. We can’t just let people claim self defense anytime their surrounded by a crowd at heated protests.
He was not surrounded by a crowd initially. He drove into the crowd.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=p6LOKZdLLlE at 6:51 - you can see his dodge in the background. It is very clearly not mobbed by aggressive protestors. The crowd was at the intersection of 4th and East Water street (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottesville_car_attack#Background_and_attack or just go in google maps). They do start walking up 4th street but you can see at 7:36-7:38 that the front of the crowd is still 30-40ish feet away from the intersection of East Main Street and 4th street. which is where Fields began to accelerate. The video you posted shows the same thing- he is clearly not surrounded, there's just a couple of guys with a camera and a biker on the other side. It is implausible to argue he feared for his life.
Not sure what you’re trying to show? It matters if he was attacked in the moment which that doesn’t capture
By that point he had clearly already started driving into the crowd. If I pull a gun on you and you hit me, I can't claim self defense or fear for my life.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link