This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I mostly remember the opposite from the time when the war just started: that Iran is doomed, that either regime collapses or the country is thrown back into the stone age and balkanized, that it shouldn't have messed with The Hegemon, that the US armed forces are unstoppable and nearly invincible.
US armed forces were unstoppable have been basically invincible: we destroyed the bulk of Iran's military industrial complex, we can intercept most of their missiles and rockets at any time, we destroyed their drone facilities, we sank most of their navy, and we killed their leaders; America has suffered 13 casualties; one plane was hit by Iranian fire and famously landed safely; another plane was destroyed and the pilot ejected, which lead to a now-famous mission where American forces intercepted him in hostile territory and built a runway to get him out without anyone being detected or killed. That is as invincible as invincible gets.
Godzilla destroys Tokyo and scratches his paw.
The only reason we didn't throw Iran back into the stone age is that we chose not to: Trump did not initiate Bridge and Power Plant Day. The only reason Iran didn't sink American ships and destroy American planes is that they can't.
Is that why you kept your ships at a decent distance?
And the reason you chose not to, is because it would have done nothing to help you achieve your strategic objectives, and would have caused unpredictable consequences that you'd have to deal with. AKA: you couldn't.
What are you implying, that the American ships were chicken?
Are you saying that America lacked the technical capacity to bomb Iran, or that America lacked the political will to deal with the fallout.
First thing is that it is not entirely clear that America actually can intercept most of Iran's missiles and rockets. I'm sure the intercept rate for something like a Shahed drone is close to 100%, but it is certainly much less for their more advanced ballistic missiles.
Second thing is that it doesn't matter if America can intercept most of Iran's missiles and rockets. You need to intercept all of them, a single miss can be billions in damage. 99% isn't going to open the straight. 99% is not going to protect your $10 billion aircraft carrier. 99% gets your THAAD destroyed. See below link.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2l2yl7r8r2o
He is saying that it is not clear how doing this accomplishes America's objectives. If our objectives were something like:
Blowing all the bridges and power plants in probably stops 1, but it's not clear how it does long term. It probably mostly stops 2, but I don't think it stops it totally, and Iran having 1% the production they do now is still very dangerous and doesn't get you where you need to be. And it doesn't stop 3 at all. So unless you think we can bomb them into agreement with America it doesn't really matter if we can blow the bridges.
Bombing Iran back to the stone ages would stop their nuclear and missile programs because they’d be dead. We would kill them. It’s also a lot of work cleaning up the body and the mess would annoy our allies so we’d rather just all shake hands.
"I chose to lose because I just don't know what would happen if I really let loose" - every guy who ever got beat up at a bar
Why do you believe that the US can’t blow up bridges and power plants? Do you think we lack the munitions?
I believe the US can blow up bridges and power plants, I just don't believe that blowing up said bridges and power plants would lead to victory.
Rather, since Iran's missile cities have proven nearly impervious to US airpower I suspect that the Iranians would respond by hitting Gulf power plants and desal. Iran has less firepower but Iran is also a huge country while the typical GCC member could be depopulated with just a few hard hits against the right infrastructure. The top buyers of American protection getting Spec Ops: The Line'd is probably an even worse outcome than simply failing and giving up
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link