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Honestly, I don't think I've ever been particularly hostile to you. Obviously I disagree with your ideology, but I don't recall ever being uncivil to you.
I accept that you are sincere in wanting a peaceful separation where we all just get along on our respective sides of the fence.
I just don't believe most white nationalists are so benevolent. Sure, they might not all want a race war if there is a less violent alternative, but they don't actually care about the well-being of black people; they just hate and resent black people because they perceive blacks to be making their own lives worse.
Let's say that's true. I think even you must know that your project of the US setting aside a chunk of the country for African-America and subsidizing them for a few generations is about as likely as AIs turning into benevolent overlords who give us Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism. So I don't see white nationalism leading to anything but a race war, whatever your personal intentions might be.
I really don’t. I’ve pointed numerous times to the waves of middle-class blacks who have moved to Atlanta and other largely-black cities in the South over the past decade, reversing the Great Migration which brought their ancestors to the North and the coasts four or five generations ago. Meanwhile, whites are voting with their feet, streaming out of California and the Northeast and fleeing to Texas, Florida, Tennessee, and other implicitly-white enclaves. (I lament that at the moment these places are only implicitly white - certainly nobody can look at the demographics of Florida and Texas and conclude that these are Whitopias - but given the churning internal migrations this country is undergoing right now, who knows how things will shake out?)
People are translating their revealed preferences into concrete action and physically separating themselves. This is happening right now. Of course we’re talking about baby steps relative to what I’m ultimately aiming for, but I think it’s disingenuous to pretend like it’s not happening or that it couldn’t possibly lead to more bold steps in the future.
"White flight" has been a thing for generations, and general population migrations for much, much longer.
Creating Whitelandia and Blacklandia is more than just a bold step, it would be essentially a forcible deconstruction of the United States as it exists now, and the explicit acknowledgment of hard racial boundaries. This is the stuff of speculative SF novels (written by white nationalists), not of contemporary society. Could your project happen in, say, two hundred years? I wouldn't rule out anything happening in two hundred years, including Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism. But as far as trying to move in that direction now, good luck, but yes, I am going to judge your project by the ideology of your fellows.
Self determination of black Americans as separate nation was Communist party project (in style of pre-Stalin Soviet national policy).
https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/black-belt-republic-1928-1934/
It was not the most succesful plank in CPUSA platform, to put it mildly.
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Do you find the fact that the so-called “black national anthem” (“Lift Every Voice And Sing”) was sung at the Super Bowl - before “The Star-Spangled Banner” - to be a meaningful step? Like, that seems to me like a very bold and extremely public move toward acknowledging the next step in the formal ethno-national awakening of black Americans. Hundreds of millions of people watched a luxuriant celebration of blacks as a separate and distinct people with their own “national anthem”, and I think this is a profoundly meaningful portent. If you don’t - or, if you don’t want it to be - that’s fine, but I think you should give a bit of credit to people like me who see it as a fulfillment of our predictions for how things will develop.
A black/white ethnic split is on the same level of plausibility as a red/blue national divorce (which gets a lot of play in centrish-right circles, e.g. michael anton* wrote an awful 50 pages on in an explicitly dissident right magazine). It's at least a little more plausible, in that kicking out the blacks wouldn't shear every institution, business, or organization in half - but that's pretty faint praise.
Most black people have white friends, and hold no strong animosity against white people. They work at their jobs with white colleagues, have white friends, use products produced by whites, watch TV shows written by whites with white stars, hire white plumbers when their pipes leak, etc. They're also attached to their cities, communities, their physical homes ... all of which physical relocation would tear up. What could possibly interest them in blexit?
And 'racism' continues to decline. Even in 1990, interracial marriage still polled at <50%. Now it's 95%. A "black national anthem", played for the sole purpose of whites accepting blacks more, isn't a portent of anything. Black separation didn't happen after slavery, it didn't happen during segregation, though there were attempts - and racial tensions are now .5% of that. It's not happening.
You can find a few things that, if you squint at the words, support any trend. But for every indicator trending towards black/white separation, a hundred things point the other way. Even (although, realistically, this data is meaningless) measures of geographical racial segregation find integration has increased recently.
* I mean, probably michael anton? Maybe it's a joke I'm not in on? It's really bad. It's just Tom (the republican)'s paragraphs upon paragraphs rebutting Malcolm (the democrat)'s individual sentences of imagined 'libtard whining'.
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I think it's on a continuum of racial disharmony that has been increasing over the past decade. In itself, it's not necessarily a bad thing (celebrating black anthems and MLK has been part of the national religion for decades now); you map it to something more sinister because you see everything through that lens. We've had more ridiculous posts here on the Motte essentially arguing that any movie with a black protagonist who could have been white is anti-white racism.
I don't disagree that there is A Problem. I would prefer a return to the 90s ideal of striving towards a colorblind society and peaceful coexistence. Of course you are going to say that's implausible and unrealistic. Let's say both our aspirations are unrealistic; I lean towards the one that doesn't lead inevitably to a civil war and doesn't require me to regard all the black people I know as future racial enemies. (Yes, I know, that's not what you think you're doing, you think you can someday persuade them to move to Blacklandia.)
N=1 but while I grew up with MLK imagery all over the place, in a school system which very much placed the black struggle and civil rights at the heart of the moral curriculum, I had never heard any "black anthems" or similar. I knew that the civil rights marchers sang "We Shall Overcome," but no-one sang it in my school or before high-school football games or anything - that would have been considered out of place and disrespectful.
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Huh? What, in anything I’ve said, leads you to conclude that I think this is sinister? I think it’s wonderful! I want this process of black ethnogenesis to proceed apace, and I wish it were happening even more quickly than it is. See, this is what I mean when I say you’re consistently misreading me, or failing to accurately model my mind. I just said that I believe it will be a good thing for black people to become fully distinct and separate, and to want and receive their own separate homeland so that they can fully blossom into the best version of themselves that they can be as a people. You seemed to acknowledge that I’m sincere in that belief, yet you’re now accusing me of believing that there’s something sinister or anti-white about blacks having their own national anthem? Do you see the cognitive dissonance here?
You seem to be arguing that accelerationism is good because it will lead to a peaceful separation? It's not cognitive dissonance, it's not understanding your model of the world.
Okay, so it's good that blacks increasingly see themselves as not part of our society or our country and will push for more black ethnonationalism. And this is good because then we will say "Cool, here's Georgia and Alabama and a pile of money, and we all live happily ever after"?
I mean, I believe you that you think this is a good thing. I just don't see how you actually consider it plausible.
Do you think that the dissolution of Czechoslovakia into two independent ethnostates was a good thing or a bad thing for the citizens involved? How about the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian empire into distinct sovereign ethnostates? What about Finland becoming politically separate from Sweden and then from Russia? Maybe if I had a clearer picture of how you perceive other historical examples of the dissolution of multiethnic imperial political projects into smaller sovereign ethnostates, I would better understand why your opinion of the prospects of a black/ADOS ethnostate is so radically different from my own.
The breakup up Czechoslovakia was accomplished more or less peacefully; the breakup of Yugoslavia, not so much. Which do you think is a more likely predictor of how things would go in the event of an ethnonationalist partition of the US, given our history?
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