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PaperclipPerfector  6d ago (text post)   21005 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 22, 2026

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Thank you for responding.

Each person has a "gender", which is an innate property that's not externally observable.

Ok, and is it fair to say that (according to gender ideology)

(1) each person is the sole and ultimate arbiter of his own gender;

(2) there is no objective way to test for gender, it's just a matter of what the person says; and

(3) society should treat people based on their gender, so for example any adult of the female gender should be able to referred to as a "woman"; should be permitted to use women's changing facilities and play women's sports; and straight men or lesbian women who refuse to date this person would be considered "transphobic."

(1) Yes.

(2) Yes.

(3) Yes, with the caveat:

straight men or lesbian women who refuse to date this person would be considered "transphobic."

This works similarly to anti-discrimination law. You're allowed to refuse to date any individual, but you aren't allowed to refuse to date people because they're transgender (or, more broadly, because you do not accept their gender identity). You can express preferences based on gender identity, and you can sometimes get away with expressing preferences based on physical traits, but you can't express preferences based on transgender status or things that obviously correlate with it (like "gender assigned at birth").

(You can't even express preferences in favor of them, that's called being a "chaser".)

(1) Yes.

(2) Yes.

(3) Yes, with the caveat:

straight men or lesbian women who refuse to date this person would be considered "transphobic."

This works similarly to anti-discrimination law. You're allowed to refuse to date any individual, but you aren't allowed to refuse to date people because they're transgender (or, more broadly, because you do not accept their gender identity). You can express preferences based on gender identity, and you can sometimes get away with expressing preferences based on physical traits, but you can't express preferences based on transgender status or things that obviously correlate with it (like "gender assigned at birth").

(You can't even express preferences in favor of them, that's called being a "chaser".)

Ok, thanks for responding again.

My next question is this:

What's the evidence that "gender" exists in the way you have defined it? Is there any evidence other than self-reporting?

What's the evidence that "gender" exists in the way you have defined it? Is there any evidence other than self-reporting?

There have been relatively low-quality MRI studies that attempt to draw physical evidence of the concept of gender identity, but mostly it is by definition a self-reported trait, so the fact that people are self-reporting it is the evidence.

A common argument is to ask the person you're arguing with, "If you woke up this morning and found you had been transformed into a stereotypical example of the opposite gender, how would you feel about that?"

  • If you would prefer that to your current body, this means that you are transgender.

  • If you would feel negatively about this change, this demonstrates that you have an innate gender identity, and it's at least possible to imagine your body not being aligned with that identity. It just so happens that your body happens to be aligned with your gender identity. Lucky you!

  • If you would genuinely feel ambivalent (are you sure you're not repressing anything?), then... okay, that probably exists and is a valid category of gender identity. But lots of other people do have strong feelings about that, and gender ideology is the most inclusive way to support those people.

so the fact that people are self-reporting it is the evidence.

Ok, thank you. So it seems there is nothing to distinguish trans people from those who self-report as being Jesus; or who self-report as having been abducted by aliens; or who self-report as having been spoken to directly by some deity; etc. Agreed?

A common argument is to ask the person you're arguing with, "If you woke up this morning and found you had been transformed into a stereotypical example of the opposite gender, how would you feel about that?" If you would prefer that to your current body, this means that you are transgender.

I think this argument proves too much. If I woke up tomorrow morning and found that I had been transformed into a man who looked pretty much like Henry Cavil and was 25 years old, I would be pretty happy about the change. That doesn't say anything about my innate identity as a short mediocre-looking man in his 50s with graying hair, though.

I think this argument proves too much. If I woke up tomorrow morning and found that I had been transformed into a man who looked pretty much like Henry Cavil and was 25 years old, I would be pretty happy about the change.

I think the assumption here would be that there are people who would basically go crazy and try to tear their skin off every time they looked in a mirror and saw Henry Cavil. Like, the fact that you would be personally fine with it is not necessarily a generally true fact about how identity works.

(Sadly, we'll have to wait until the singularity to properly test this.)

I think the assumption here would be that there are people who would basically go crazy and try to tear their skin off every time they looked in a mirror and saw Henry Cavil

There may be people like this, but I'm not. (But I'll make it even easier. If I woke up tomorrow morning and I was transformed into a 25 year old version of myself, I'd be delighted. ) This single counter example disproves the entire generalization.

Unless of course, what transgender really means is that the person desires to be the other gender. Which I strongly suspect is pretty close to the truth.

Nobody in this thread is saying it's universally true though. In fact lots of people, me included in the comment you're replying to, say that it isn't.

Nobody in this thread is saying it's universally true though.

I strongly disagree. Here's what the person had said:

A common argument is to ask the person you're arguing with, "If you woke up this morning and found you had been transformed into a stereotypical example of the opposite gender, how would you feel about that?" If you would prefer that to your current body, this means that you are transgender.

This person is clearly making a universal generalization. He doesn't say "this probably means that you are transgender" or "this might mean that you are transgender." Rather, he says "this means that you are transgender" without any qualification. Therefore a single counter-example is sufficient to disprove the entire argument.

But okay, obviously you are not on the hook to defend another person's argument. So let me ask you this:

Under what circumstances is it true that a desire (or preference) to "wake up as a woman," indicates that the individual is transgender?

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