This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The Supreme Court has issued a ruling on Trump v. Barbara (birthright citizenship). 6-3 striking down Trump's executive order. You can find the ruling here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/25-365_4hdj.pdf
I've only had enough time to skim the ruling thus far. Jackson wrote a concurrence which I won't bother to read because she's the second most retarded member of the court (Sotomayor still reigns supreme in retardation). Kavanaugh partially concurred on the basis that this needed to be done by act of congress as opposed to executive order, but otherwise generally agreed with the Trump admin's interpretation of the 14th amendment. Thomas and Gorsuch outright dissented. Alito had his own separate dissent. Thomas's opinion includes several historical examples of people born on US soil to people not lawfully in the US who were denied citizenship, and I was not aware of these examples previously, making his the most interesting. Well that and the fact that it agrees with my 100% objectively correct and indisputable view of the matter of course.
This is roughly how most court-watchers expected this decision to turn out, but it still doesn't change the immense disappointment I feel over this news. Someone here earlier this week or last week said that this decision will be our generation's Dred Scott regardless of how it is decided, and that it will tear the union apart in similar fashion. Demographic changes in the West generally are leading to ever increasing tension and dysfunction, and I fear this decision will ensure that a breaking point is reached soooner, rather than later.
The meltdowns in response to the ruling have been pretty incredible, looking at a lot of comments on X would have you believe that the SC just decided to institute birthright citizenship today, instead of them just not changing the law of the land precedent of >150 years. No one alive knows a US without birthright citizenship.
If it's so damaging, why are we one of the wealthiest and most powerful nations not just in the world but in history? Even if you're a pessimistic doomer who can't appreciate the country today because you've gone too fast on the hedonic treadmill and who thinks the 90s or the 60s or the roaring 20s or whatever were Peak America, those times were also under birthright citizenship.
Conservatives even considered it a point of pride! Here's the great Ronald Reagan on immigration https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/archives/speech/remarks-presentation-ceremony-presidential-medal-freedom-5
But modern "conservativism" isn't conservative. It's a corrupted cult of personality based around grievance politics, and racial grievance politics is just a subcategory of that. If modern "conservatives" had any balls left, they would rise against the welfare state they think is attracting parasites, and not against stuff like H1B visas, scientists, engineers, and other great additions to the country. It's not very complicated
Micheal Tracey even made a great point about how victimhood complexes have consumed these "conservatives" so much that they've even largely stopped caring about abortion.
Because America “Akshually” sucks to live in now. And I can say that because I’ve been living in Argentina. Immigrants actually are kind of awful. We’ve been essentially ethnically cleansed out of NYC. I’m sick and tired of being exposed to gun violence in Chicago. San Francisco is a boring Asian town now which use to be like the people from Full House. Besides the quality and safety of our cities declining we’ve made it worse by not building housing in our cities and also subsidizing immigrants so that you either need to make 7-figures or live on welfare to live in a big city. The fact that the American Dream of living in a big city doesn’t exists anymore Akshually does mean immigration sucks and black crime killed neighborhoods. So sure America is great if you want to live in a 5k sq foot house with a giant truck far enough away from any immigrants to not deal with them, but if you actually want to live in an community then the American Dream dead.
It just better not living around immigrants in ways not captured by GDP goes up. The social contract was broken in America and people realize that now.
So sure quote Reagan. The issue with Reagan is he was wrong. The Italians successfully became Americans but that’s it. Of course the Italians invented Western society so perhaps it’s never should have been surprising they eventually assimilate.
NIMBYism is not the fault of immigrants.
Immigrants in the US commit crime at a lower rate than natives. Native Black people do commit crime at a very high rate, which can ruin neighbourhoods, but that has nothing to do with immigrants.
What exactly is the problem? Just the fact that they're Asian?
You have zero good sources for immigrants commit less crime. Because the US does not have good data. I believe it’s Sweden that has good data on immigrants. And they commit a lot more crime.
Harvard discriminated against Asians in admissions for a reason. I don’t make the rules but even the elites decided Asians kill the vibes of a place.
Google "immigrants commit less crime" and you'll find studies galore. We can have a look at one in particular if you like. The profile of immigrants in the US and Sweden is very different and it is entirely plausible that immigrants to Sweden commit more crime than natives and immigrants to the US commit less crime than natives.
The reason being they're extremely racist? I mean, what you are saying about Asians is racist by any reasonable definition.
I know those studies exists. They all have flaws and the top one is grouping blacks with natives. We don’t want more black level crime. Classification on status is also a big issue.
The Swedish studies show a very agreeable issue - you need to heavily filter immigration at a bare minimum. If crime is the only standard then you need to be very racists in selecting who immigrates.
Sure Harvard is being racists. Is racism wrong?
Once you accept human biodiversity and differences in athletics and intelligence then there are almost certainly personality difference. US natives find Asians boring. Asians probably find us natives loud and obnoxious.
Since I’ve worked in trading. Citadel loves hiring Asian math Olympiad winners. They probably do make better market making algorithms and GDP goes up. But for a work environment I would much prefer being around a bunch of old floor traders. To me they are just cooler guys to hang out with.
How convenient that Blacks are too rowdy and criminal, Asians too boring and presumably not criminal enough, and your own race is just right.
Well I mean yes. Every race evolved to optimize for the living conditions they grew up in. I am not saying any race is better than others. It’s just each race prefers living with their own race.
Asians do not let non-Asians immigrate to their countries. Africans well are on video saying kill the boer and want to expel whites from S Africa. It’s a fairly universal belief to want to segregate.
And hey look we still see distinct voting patterns by ethnicities decades and centuries after they came here.
https://x.com/xwanyex/status/2072701003372060913?s=46
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link