This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I don't quite understand how it has come to this. In Germany at least the far-right has a convenient theory that they get this as punishment for WWII. That the victorious Allies ensured that Germany, by becoming multicultural, will never re-develop that ethno-nationalistic, militaristic ethos they had pre-WWII. But Britain won WWII. France won WWII. Who pushed them to do this?
I think the EU generally has been resting on its laurels. There was an assumption that the status quo which prevailed since the cold war would hold forever. That free trade in a rules based world is so profitable for everyone that there is no way anyone would want to jeopardize it with war. Eventually, other countries would see the light and follow suit. Once they did, they would be rewarded with free trade and be welcomed as an ally. It was okay to be dependent on the US for security and Russia for gas, as they would have too much to loose to abuse their leverage.
This assumption extended to immigration. Why would you move to a country only to ruin it? It makes no sense. Obviously, immigrants would assimilate to the local culture as the resulting standard of living is far superior to where they came from.
Under this worldview, providing foreign aid, outsourcing manufacturing to China, and accepting massive amounts of asylum seekers made sense. I don't think either the elites or a majority of the population really considered that things might get worse. The idea that people might take our resources and only to turn against us was just not a narrative that many people believed.
More options
Context Copy link
Cheaper labour obviously and then it went into overdrive when the unholy alliance between business interests on the right and progressives on the left emerged and pushed criticism of immigration outside the overtook window.
More options
Context Copy link
The US used anti-colonialist Third-Worldism to appeal to the third world in the Cold War. Part of this was making very clear that the old imperial powers were being dealt with. See for example the incident of the Suez Canal when Eisenhower threatened to crash the UK economy if we didn't withdraw. Increasingly craven displays of acceptance were the only way to retain any world influence at all, and nobody with influence foresaw (or wanted to foresee) how far things would go.
The same broad impetus was behind many Civil Rights decisions in the US as well: the US government was well-aware that overt Jim Crow style racism against blacks in America was being used to entice resource-owning African countries under the USSR's welcoming skirts.
More options
Context Copy link
Importing the third world to make up for their own native working class's low fertility, which looked like a good idea at the time, but wasn't.
Wasn't low fertility seen as good at the time? Population bomb, Paul Ehrlich etc?
Yes, but most of that was aimed at the third world. The panic about working class fertility was more to do with unsupervised youths(nobody wants zillions of teen boys running around doing whatever they want), welfare concerns, and teen pregnancy.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link