This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This is the best solution to childhood bullies actually.
Nice try, but you said she was.
Are you so racist that you think their above replacement TFR is a terrible outcome?
In that case you shouldn't be surprised when people tell you that you can't have sex with underage girls and they'll put you in prison if you try. After all, it will be your fault!
Hardly. I said two consenting adults getting married should not be an issue, and 13 is obviously not an adult. Not that the events of the play would have been any different had she been 23 or even 33 of course, her age is not why people are upset.
To the extent that the Arab world has an above replacement TFR, it's mostly thanks to shithole countries like Somalia and Sudan. Once they reach even moderate levels of development (e.g. Morocco, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia) they no longer have above replacement TFR.
What some societies do to 25 year olds that have a 17 year old girlfriend is like a bully killing his victim, not a victim punching his bully. It's like your side has no sense of scale. It's illogic, barbarity, and ignorant understanding of how human romance actually works all the way down.
Societies with teen marriage do not generally have unchaperoned dating. They are still very hard on unmarried, especially girls who sought out sex with (anyone), and some are also hard on the men, or else offer them an opportunity to marry the girl. Does France allow a 17 year old and a 25 year old to date? Maybe they do. Google says that 33 states allow 17 year olds to marry, but some limit the age gap.
Right, if your goal is to boost TFR based on historically effective methods, the end state you'll be reaching for looks like "boost young marriage" and the lever you'll be reaching for to make that happen looks like "make seduction and breach of promise torts great again" and the like.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Well, that's because they go
behind the families' backsbehind society's back!Really? Because fucking 17 year olds has not been the norm in western Europe basically ever.
Check before 1500 AD.
Society is something bad people came up with to justify their evil behavior. It's not real, there are just sets of families.
That does not appear to cohere with your designs for the world at all. As far as I understand, you want the world to coordinate on bringing certain kinds of people (the "smart" ones), regardless of heritage or proof of work (because proving your smarts through work is cheating and real proof is the IQ test), to the forefront.
This will not happen if there are only sets of families because every family will be looking out for itself. Any uniting principle that goes above familial ties and nepotism will, by definition, be society.
This only coheres if you include yourself into the set of bad people who have come up with society to justify their evil behavior (such as declaring that they should be prioritized).
If you read a history book you will notice that aristocracy is always family based.
Not only am I obviously aware of that, it doesn't help your argument.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link