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Notes -
I was rather surprised to see how outright hostile the sentiment was towards Americans, while attending a reasonably high profile comedy show in Edinburgh tonight. Even directed at the poor sods who responded when the MC/individual comedians asked if there were Americans in the crowd. Apparently "I didn't vote for him" is no defense.
I ran into a very nice gentleman from Washington state while sheltering from the rain under the alcove of his building, next to the venue. I told him that while the show was nice enough, he's better off pretending to be Canadian. He was a tad bit strange, since, as he explained and then demonstrated, he'd stepped out to get soaked in the rain in lieu of a shower. That is probably whimsy and not pathology, but I opted to stay dry.
To be fair, I was sampling from the most vocally leftist/progressive strata of Scottish society. The average Scot seems to be much less deranged, and outright welcoming of the odd American tourist. Anyone else notice such obvious hostility in other countries?
Lots of people outside America don't like America and it's not about US strength or wealth, it's not envy but genuine distaste. They just do not like US culture or lifestyle or demeanour. They think that its weird to swear allegiance to the flag in schools, they think it's weird to have all these guns and fireworks and huge cars. They think Americans are crass and stupid and unwise. They go to America and find it really weird and hostile, all these drug adverts on TV, all these homeless people about, people actually approaching you and trying to make conversation on the street. Tipping. It's all weird. They aren't going to America again and will openly tell others not to go to America either. These are wealthy people who go to Europe just about every year on holidays, or boomers that go on cruises and tell me in detail how much they dislike Americans on cruises.
I was talking with a student from the US and I was trying to make the point (albeit in a more polite and appropriate way) that if it weren't for US power Australia would probably have been raped to death by Japan in WW2 so there are pluses as well as minuses about American militarism. But she was going on about how the pledge of allegiance was weird and just innately unacceptable. She was feeling the same kind of laboured 'you're obviously wrong, why do I even have to defend this' that I was feeling.
I make points in a separate conversation with an Australian professor about how the US economy is growing a lot faster than the Australian economy despite the US making a mess with tarriffs so they're doing some things right that we should emulate but even fairly sophisticated people like her say 'no, it's too unequal, there's too much extreme wealth and poverty and that's bad for democracy'. Or they regurgitate an Economist article about how the US is 'islands of affluence' in a sea of relative poverty. It's like saying that 'maybe we should build infrastructure in a more efficient way' and this reflexive answer pops up 'well China can only do that because they have slaves, there's probably a good reason that for HS2 they're building tunnels in open countryside.' Try saying anything positive about China to the average educated person in the West and they will probably refuse or deflect or mitigate. Well it's the same with America.
It's like the mirror image of Americans being super gung ho about America:
Normies overseas are no_chadding. No matter the GDP or the stock markets they don't give a damn, America sucks. Not to mention the wars and tariffs that keep dragging in or imposing costs on US allies. Americans could say 'We're so rich' and that wouldn't matter, it only confirms disgust that is rooted in culture, not wealth.
You’re talking about Europeans.
I didn’t read past the first paragraph to post this but you specifically mean Europeans and South Americans who think they are.
I am not in fact talking about Europeans! I'm talking/thinking about Australians, an American student in Australia, a Canadian...
That’s on me - I in fact just forgot about those people haha
So it’s not just the facade of it all? Like Australia to America is surf, barbies, kangaroos, hot women, aborigines.
But America is literally everything. Beyoncé and the nfl, Jay z and Iraq, California and guns, progressiveness and Trump. Is it not just the all encompassing everything of it all?
No, America is a very small part of these people's lives (the rich old ones that is, different for students of course). All of those things that you mention are to be looked down on. Beyonce - awful. NFL - awful. Jay Z (and rap music generally) - awful. California - awful. Iraq - awful. Guns - awful. Progressiveness - awful, especially if its something serious like pronouns being used ungrammatically or shoddy academic writing about decolonization/progressive issues (but they would not dare say that in public). Trump and anyone associated with Trump with the exception of Pence - awful awful awful and they'll say it out in public. Coca Cola - awful. Microsoft - awful (but they have to use it anyway like anyone who wants to get things done). Israel - awful.
There was never much good about America with the possible exception of Harvard and whatever judges there are that stand up to Trump. Now the whole country is descending into fascism as far as they're concerned.
Classical FM. Opera. ABC News (the Australian ABC that is, the state broadcaster). British television (Yes Minister, Would I lie to you, Top Gear, Clarkson's Farm). British youtubers. The Sydney Morning Herald. The Guardian. The Conversation. The European Union. Florence. Venice. Rome. Paris. London. Cambridge. Oxford. The Times. The Economist. Fresh food. That's where it's at.
Well ok but they’re stupid.
Which is a different argument - most people are just normal right so your point maybe does track more than more.
You think (they think?) the nfl is stupid but it’s legitimately fantastic. It’s more popular than anything else in the country - is soccer retarded? Why is Jay Z bad because I have zero interest in it?
Venice Rome Paris and London are now fallen cities - they’re twenty years away from being non Western majority … it makes sense people from Australia might think it’s just the bees knees … until your daughters are being stoned.
So, sure.
But it seems your argument is kind of what I brought up earlier: things in the mainstream are bad, and America is the mainstream.
I dunno I just don’t see it - if you think football is to be looked down on but soccer isn’t, Jay z bad but opera good, London good but Miami bad? These are dumb thoughts from wannabes.
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