site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 31, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I'm starting to think that Futurama was rather prescient in calling the turn of the century from 20th to 21st as the Stupid Ages.

No matter how stupid people are today, I'm sure they were dumber pre-1900, especially before we normalized hand-washing. Although if you want to call the entire history of humanity "the stupid ages" I'd agree to that.

what if it turns out even very "hard" or concrete fields like electrical engineering or chemistry are built on a bunch of stupidity that has just enough facade to be convincing to the in-field expert and certainly more than enough to the layman?

I'd be surprised if these didn't have subtle errors that will be corrected later, but they (even the slightly incorrect old models) have already been replicated and extrapolated into new discoveries, unlike much of psychology, so I wouldn't call them "stupid" and certainly not useless.

Pre scientific people were often dumb in believing incorrect things, but they believed these things largely due to the limitations of their methods and observational equipment. Modern beliefs which are incorrect are intentionally so, lots of these beliefs are literally supported by changing the definitions of things when statements about them have been falsified.

Aristotle believed that women naturally had fewer teeth than men because he was unable to check the chemistry of nutrient flows in pregnancy that led to tooth loss. He believed that objects in motion gradually come to a stop because he had no way of measuring air resistance. He believed women’s mental illnesses were caused by their wombs moving out of place because he had no way to check hormone levels. People believing falsified things about gender and sex being meaningfully different can check those things, they know they’re wrong, because they have checked this. They changed the relevant definitions instead of updating their beliefs.

Pre scientific people were intentionally mislead by smarter ones too: mystics, false religions, etc. And science is sometimes like mystic religion, with incorrect beliefs perpetuated by dogma, but I think it’s more accurate than those of the past: exposed papers do get retracted, my albeit basic understanding of mysticism is that there isn’t really an analogue “oh our beliefs are wrong now that outsiders have actually questioned them”.

We have mystics and false religions even today. Woo is still a thing.

Pre scientific people were intentionally mislead by smarter ones too: mystics, false religions, etc.

The difference in my view is that mystics, false religions, etc. didn't provide some structured, well-established method at arriving at facts and the truth the same way science does. Generally, mystics, to whatever extent they believe that their mysticism gives them access to the truth, doesn't purposefully corrupt their mysticism in an effort to "discover" that what is true is everything they wanted to be true all along (arguably the mysticism itself accomplishes that, which is one part of what makes it different from science). Right now, the people purporting to do science are doing exactly that, despite having all the tools and knowledge and information required to understand that they are indeed corrupting science and also how not to corrupt science. That's what makes their stupidity extra stupid.

Like how someone with training in arithmetic and calculators who declares the calculator as a tool of White Supremacy and therefore 12 x 12 = 1212, not 144 like what the calculator said, has a sort of stupidity that goes beyond the stupidity of someone who just never had access to mathematical education and declares 12 x 12 = 1221. 1212 is slightly more accurate because it's even like 144, not odd, and also closer to 144 than 1221 is, but the process by which the person arrived at that was arguably more stupid.

No matter how stupid people are today, I'm sure they were dumber pre-1900, especially before we normalized hand-washing. Although if you want to call the entire history of humanity "the Stupid ages" I'd agree to that.

I think it could make sense to call the ages the Stupid Ages if the cause of us being stupid was the very thing that was for the purpose of addressing/avoiding/escaping stupidity, which is sort of what's happening with academia, which are ostensibly for the purpose of something like addressing stupidity, even if, overall, we're less stupid than any other age. There's something to hubris that is extra stupid than just being plain old stupid. Especially since hubris is, itself, a concept that is taught in academia as something bad and to avoid.

As flawed as academia is, I still think we'd be stupider without it. For example, imagine if we didn't have the psychological fallacies (although even today people fall for them way too frequently, imagine if you couldn't even point them out because they weren't established, and AFAIK these haven't been debunked).

I have seen exactly 0 people convinced anytime anywhere by an argument via someone else saying they are committing a psychological fallacy. It's nice to have them labeled but I'd put the real world impact as pretty de minimis

I have seen exactly 0 people convinced anytime anywhere by an argument via someone else saying they are committing a psychological fallacy. It's nice to have them labeled but I'd put the real world impact as pretty de minimis

Even that might be overly charitable. If you start with someone who is arrogant and partisan and teach that person various fallacies, quite possibly he will become more arrogant, more confident in his partisan opinions, and less willing to consider contradictory information (because he is better at spotting arguable weaknesses in his opponents' arguments).

As flawed as academia is, I still think we'd be stupider without it.

I think you're right. But:

  1. That's what anyone living in the Stupid Ages would think.
  2. We may be crossing - or already have crossed without knowing - a boundary where academia contributes greater stupidity than it alleviates, and so past performance isn't indicative of future performance.
  3. Stupidity isn't some single-dimension attribute that we can place on "humanity" and move up or down, but rather an aggregation of countless little individual things, so we could be less stupid thanks to academia and more stupid, with the possibility that the harms of the latter are so significant (though not necessarily greater than the benefits) as to mark our current time.