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I've banged the drum on this being medicine and psychiatry not psychology half a dozen times.
People who literally cannot define psychosis are saying "she's not psychotic and the result of this is that women will get away with murder because of their periods."
The analogy holds.
Medicine is a significant step down in reliability from aerospace engineering. Psychiatry even more so, again. Not to the level of homeopathy, not to the point where there are no successes, but both fields contain a lot of bad research.
Psychiatry is medicine, and it has the same problems - money and ethical concerns provide significant limitations in research over some scientific disciplines, but the problems are driven by tensions like that and the reality of research dealing with the most complex organism we have access to. Yes it's not pure math, but it's closer to that than homeopathy.
Aerospace as much as anything else has people publishing to avoid perishing and corner cutting because of finances, if we are going to take it that far.
The core difference is ease of verifiability. In aerospace, either the plane flies at the intended speed and fuel economy, or it doesn't. You can just check. And if it works, it'll pretty reliably work almost all the time forever.
Medicine and psychiatry are, as you said, investigating the most complex organism we care about while hogtied by ethical concerns. This makes it much easier to get away with publishing papers that just don't mean anything at all. Who is going to fight through an IRB to check? Will the (n=25) replication attempt even matter? If so, will the results of some general study specify out to any particular individual with their own mix of genes and hormones and enviroments and everything else?
Like I said, there are definite successes. The comparison to homeopathy is unfair.
But so is the comparison to aerospace.
Yeah fair.
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OK, well I see no prospect of any productive conversation with you on this topic, then. I'll only respond to your comments insomuch as to correct what I see as errors for third parties.
I mean I don't know what to say, the posts here involve a lot of demonstrably untrue statements and I've provided a link that provides education so that people can understand the various contexts and their is a large amount of outright refusal.
Assuming information is more incorrect because it comes from someone with information, training, and experience is obvious idiocy, but it does appear to be the stance you are advocating for.
This is false, it's obviously false by looking at this thread, and I'm puzzled as to how you can write this as if it would be taken seriously. Like, it's so transparently dishonest that I don't know what else to say than that you appear to be obviously operating in bad faith, and I would prefer you didn't.
You claimed:
"The difference between aerospace engineering and homeopathy/psychology is that the former has loads of empirical evidence and concrete track record of success as detectable and measurable by a layman in everyday life, while the latter 2 not only lack empirical evidence but often go directly against it."
Again we are talking about psychiatry, not psychology, but both have plenty of incredibly rigorous, replicable, and reliable research and conclusions. As with anything they also have elements of bleeding edge and hobby research that are questionable.
Critical thinking involves using basic investigation to discriminate between things that are questionable and things that have a strong basis.
Instead you try to imply that psychiatry, psychology, and homeopathy are all the same level of reliable.
Indeed. And I've noticed that
Well, not literally at the exact same identical level, but close enough, as I was being hyperbolic; I'm assuming your comparison of aerospace engineering with psychiatry was also hyperbolic, because that claim would be more ridiculous than homeopathy, as someone with more knowledge than I wish I had in psychiatry.
I've noticed that through my various investigations of reality, that this is true. There's no single text or set of texts I could read on some semi-anonymous message board that would convince me otherwise. If your judgment is that my judgment is wrong, that's fair enough, different people come to different conclusions based on the evidence. But nowhere did I imply that "information is more incorrect because it comes from someone with information, training, and experience." That is utterly ridiculous and transparently in bad faith. The point is that psychiatry experts, and people who trust them, like you, believe they have information, training, and experience [in ways that would inform them better than the layman], when, in fact, that is false. Much like how a homeopathic researcher believes, in their heart of hearts, that they have better information, training, and experience in healing people with water, or a moon landing truther believes that they have better information, etc. Again, different people can have different opinions on this, but given the state of the evidence, it is quite reasonable to group all these people together in terms of their credibility.
I am very confused, you seem to be simultaneously claiming that psychiatry is on par with homeopathy and criticizing me for complaining that you are making that claim.
Pick. Is it bullshit or is it not. If you think it's bullshit, prove it. Given that you required significant redirection to note the difference between psychology and psychiatry I don't think you can.
Additionally psychiatry does areas where it is 100% as predictable and reliable as aerospace engineering. These are more limited than we'd like, but antipsychotic goes on, psychosis goes off and BZD goes on, catatonia goes off are extremely well understood biological phenomena. Yeah we don't understand everything about them, but just because we don't full understand how ice skates work doesn't mean physics is broken.
You keep harping on the difference between psychology and psychiatry as if one is astrology and the other astronomy. They are incredibly closely intertwined.
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