This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Navier-Stokes Millenium Problem Solved by GPT
OpenAI says they solved the Navier-Stokes Millenium Prize problem with an internal model that is more powerful than GPT6, so a GPT 7 candidate or something close. OpenAI has been on fire lately really casting a shadow on Anthropic. First the hugging face incident, now the first to crack the Millenium prize problems.
As for the solution to the problem, they are claiming that smoothness is disproved and that the equations do break down.
They say that the equation can develop a singularity, which apparently means it is not a perfect model.
This is very exciting to me as I believe it to be the first scientific result of an AI model. Previous results have been basically irrelevant to the sciences. However, this result is of course still completely symbolic in nature, which is not surprising because LLMs are not embodied enough to collect data and analyze it autonomously.
While they are generating amazing PR recently, I will say GPT-6 is somewhat disappointing for coding. It is not the same leap that 5.5 to 5.6 sol was. It would appear that the models are getting better at running very long context chains while efficiency improvements and refinements in lower level tasks are lacking. Still, it's great work from OpenAI and it's plausible to me that if there's no singularity in general by 2030, there will be for mathematicians. They will no longer be meaningful for producing math, rather they will only be humans who understand it.
May be tossing egg on my face, but I'll post this anyway:
There's a decent chance this proof is not valid. It's formalised in Lean 4, yes, but we also had a Lean-verified proof of the Collatz conjecture a couple months ago that turned out to be spurious (they didn't actually find a proof; they found a bug in Lean).
That proof was 320 lines. This Navier-Stokes proof is 1.6 million lines, and according to their README, requires 100GB to even check. Thanks to somebody eating all the ram, my PC does not presently have 100GB, so I can't run Lean myself to check it. But I will point out that the README explicitly mentions Lean 4.32.2, and the release notes for Lean 4.33.1 mention two soundness bugs fixed, so... it sure looks like there are exploitable soundness bugs in the version they used for this proof.
And if an LLM can find a soundness bug in 320 lines, surely it can sneak one into 1.6 million lines.
How big are human written proofs in this space? This Euler proof that Levent and Co wrote, how big was it? 1.6 million lines feels like a brute force solution. Mathematics at this level is sufficiently arcane for me to never begin to understand it, but I am skeptical that ANY human has ever written a proof of more than 10-20k lines.
For reference, the Lean 4 mathlib library is an attempt to formalise all mathematics known to humankind, and it sits at 15M lines.
yeah 10% of "all mathematics known to man" makes me a bit skeptical. I lean towards the charitable explanation that this is the sort of thing that AI is just good at because no singular human or even team of humans is going to find a proof that is 1.6 million lines long in any bounded time that doesn't span a lifetime of work.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link