This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It’s likely true that suburbanization was increasing as cars became viable but I think it’s also fair that city crime and decline of amenities also encouraged suburbanization. Some % of the population would have preferred to remain in cities if the QOL in cities had not declined.
University of Chicago is probably the most obvious area where declining QOL prevented the formation of an industrial cluster around the university.
Most things do have multi-factors but I do think declining QOL significantly accelerated the move to suburbs.
I dunno.
I could believe that suburbanization depressed prices in inner cities, which proceeded to attract the kinds of people who can afford them, and that has a feedback loop where the presence of said people depresses the prices ("gentrification" works both ways).
The difference back in the '40s-'90s was that very cheap new technology (and a massive domestic manufacturing base) made building outwards attractive, and building outwards was still perfectly legal, so everyone except the very poor could afford to do it (and at that point, out of sight, out of mind). Evaporative cooling in the lower priced areas occurred. And then the demand for low-skill labor started drying up in the late '70s.
(One notes that once there's nothing for an unemployed man to do, he will turn to sex work- which for men is waging war- and if there is no organization willing or able to point him at a foreign enemy he will simply start a civil war at home, or "turn to crime" for short.[1, 2])
One might even point out that, if that is true, that suburbanization led to desegregation. City people are notoriously authoritarian more or less out of necessity- the number of people affected by poor behavior is drastically higher, compounded with there being far more poor per square mile.
So as normal people increasingly left for new land, they found that they didn't need to defend themselves from the [urban] poor any more (and further are now subject to other selection effects: that people who look like the urban poor, who make it out to the suburbs, are as far away from "urban poor" as you can get).
Naturally, with far less exposure to them, one would naturally be more sympathetic to the notion [that "looks like an urban poor" and "is an urban poor" are incompatible], and so as soon as they solidify as a voting bloc they will use that as a weapon and claim that people who are using the easiest, lowest-information proxy for who is urban poor are morally corrupt for doing so (or "racist" for short).
Which is easy to say, when the moral hazard is in your favor.
[1] Especially when a government agency is selling an incredibly cheap war-enhancing drug to those men rather than financing an expeditionary force to fight such a war themselves, perhaps contra Iran?
[2] One will also note that "fighting a civil war at home" is specifically what a very famous part of American law is meant for; the urban poor are exercising their rights appropriately. This fact makes a lot of people uncomfortable and led to a bunch of hysteria, mostly about "assault handguns". The right to do this is important specifically because it makes a threat clear: alienate a population because the Chinaman is a better worker than the domestic urban poor, and the urban poor have the right and responsibility to make you pay for it. Unfortunately for the urban poor, anyone who could organize a proper resistance... all left for the suburbs (or got killed themselves).
Have you, uh, been downtown in a US city in the past ten years?
So, about that.
One notes that, for the last 50 years, "Muhrasism" was the room temperature in which one raised one's children. Again, mostly championed by the people who no longer had to deal with the urban poor.
Now these people, born and raised in the [technically, pagan] religion of Muhrasism (which they brought with them, just like Italians brought the Mafia, and it functions the same way), are back in the city- because they can't afford to live elsewhere.
They're not wealthy enough to pay the penalty for blasphemy against this religion (one notes the current blasphemers are "responsible for a significant chunk of space architecture" and "wrote a stupendously successful series of children's novels"- anyone capable of being a real turning point gets shot to death by jihadists), so the religion persists.
I think I generally understood you here but still find much of it impenetrable.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link