This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I tend to agree with this. If someone gave me $100k and I was required to bet all the money one way or another, of course I would bet it was a lab leak.
The other thing is that this is a little bit a culture war issue. Evidently, a few years back one of the progressive system updates indicated that one shouldn't blame China for the Coronavirus. How does this affect my thinking? Well for starters I can't help but notice that progressives lie about everything and everything. My impression is not simply that they say whatever BS is convenient without regards to the truth. But rather, dishonesty with respect to certain things is a badge of honor for them. So the fact that the progressive party line is against the lab leak hypothesis makes me more likely to believe it's true.
On the other hand, I admit that I really hate progressives and possibly this is coloring my judgment. The fact that they are (somewhat) against the lab leak hypothesis makes me want to believe in it.
The other thing that I find interesting is that if the lab leak hypothesis is correct (and it does seem to be correct) it suggests that the CCP has a great deal of influence over western progressives. I'm not thrilled about going down the road of conspiracy theories, and undisclosed foreign agents, but on the other hand, is it really so outrageous to hypothesize that China is trying to covertly influence Western political discourse?
I get that you really, really really hate progressives, but I feel obligated to remind you.
Reversed stupidity is still not intelligence.
In general, I agree but I think there are exceptions to this principle.
For example, suppose you are taking a standardized college entrance exam like the SAT; you come to one of the last questions in a particular section; and you observe that a couple of the answer choices would be really appealing to a stupid person.
For example, the question is this:
In the figure below, what is the most number of non-overlapping unit squares which can be fit into triangle ABC?
(a) 3 (b) 4 (c) 5 (d) 6
Suppose that you see a really simple and obvious way to fit 4 squares into the triangle. In that case, you can safely eliminate choice (b), because stupid people are going to pick (b) and the test makers CAN'T have a test where stupid people get one of the hardest questions correct. Such a question would be thrown out. Similarly, you can eliminate choice (d) because a really stupid person will see the phrase "most" and just choose the highest answer. Choice (a) can be eliminated as well -- if choice (b) is incorrect, it follows that choice (a) must be incorrect as well.
So the net effect is that you can make a pretty good guess at the correct answer by reversing stupidity.
Ok, so what does this have to do with progressives? Well, progressives are constantly competing with each other for social status within the community. So arguably there is constant pressure to demonstrate one's belonging and allegiance to the progressive cause. Which is more effective at doing so? Making a true statement which anyone could honestly say or agree with? Or, to borrow from the Chinese fable, to pretend that a deer is actually a horse?
So arguably, progressives have incentive to twist, spin, fabricate, and outright lie, not only to advance their agenda but also just for the sake of lying.
Anyway, I can't prove that this actually happens, but it does make me think that factual claims made by progressives should be given negative weight.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I haven't seen this myself as I don't use Tiktok, but afaik, Tiktok was early and intense in pushing the "Free Palestine/Israel are committing genocide" meme complex among Western teens.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link