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PaperclipPerfector  8d ago (text post)   22553 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 21, 2026

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Stealing this from @ToaKraka in the FF thread:

A 911 call is made regarding a robbery perpetrated at gunpoint by three juvenile males in black clothing. One mile away from the location of the reported robbery, the responding officers find two juvenile males—one in all black, and another, KC, wearing a black shirt and mask and gray pants. The officers pull over alongside the juveniles and start walking toward them while shining a flashlight at them. KC starts walking away. An officer steps in front of KC, blocking his path, and asks him what's in his waistband. KC discards the object in his waistband (a gun) and runs away, but is quickly apprehended. He is charged with various delinquencies.

The trial judge grants KC's motion to suppress the evidence. The officers fully detained him, rather than casually speaking with him, when they shined a flashlight on him and blocked his path; and they did not have reasonable suspicion to detain him, since the description given in the 911 call was vague and KC didn't even match it. (The caller didn't even provide a direction in which the assailants fled. Did the officers have the power to detain all juvenile males wearing a single article of black clothing within a one-mile radius of the robbery? No.)

Our own BJ Campbell wrote that this is one of the important differences between the US and Western Europe. A German or British police officer would have the power to detain all juvenile males wearing a single article of black clothing within a one-mile radius of the robbery and physical evidence wouldn't be suppressed even if obtained without following the proper trail of investigation.

Is the USA shooting itself in the foot there? What will it lose if it changes its legal norms to lower the bar on probable cause and evidence suppression?

It seems to me the problem with law is its universality. We need hard paternalism for the bottom 10% and classic liberalism with protections for everyone else

Hypothetical: you're now in the bottom 10%. How do you live differently under hard paternalism? How do you qualify to leave the bottom 10%?

I interpret "bottom 10%" as being unable to follow obvious rules like no assault or theft (without a reasonable excuse like self-defense or genuine need), especially breaking the same rule multiple times, with strong evidence. Maybe this isn't actually 10% or what the parent implied, but it's my criteria for facing the real law, like "hard paternalism".

I'm sympathetic even to these people, and feel bad arguing for their harm. But society must do something or (there's overwhelming evidence) more people will suffer. And the only way I can imagine myself in their shoes is after brain damage that would make present me want to restrain future me ahead of time (similar to how I may prefer euthanasia over decades of dementia).

How do you live differently under hard paternalism?

Some way to ensure you can't assault or steal from innocents. You could live in a confined area with others guilty of your crime (i.e. ghetto - I try not to hide under euphemisms), a confined apartment (i.e. cell, where you can be alone or with friends), or walk among official civilization with restraints that prevent your crime.

How do you qualify to leave the bottom 10%?

If you can convincingly demonstrate that something has changed so that you'll no longer assault or steal. e.g. spending enough time not attempting to, even under pressure, especially if restrictions can temporarily be kept but moved out of your perception.

You could live in a confined area with others guilty of your crime (i.e. ghetto - I try not to hide under euphemisms)

1997
New York City
Is a walled
maximum security
prison.

Breaking out
is impossible.

Breaking in
is insane.

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