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This sounds like woke judging for black youths. No detention took place. There is an underlying assumption here that black youth are not smart enough to talk to a police officer.
If I want to talk to someone I walk directly at them in their path. That’s a completely normal interaction. The black youth in question could have just responded to the cop “I don’t want to talk you can you get out of my way”
I would like to see the body cam to see how the cop impeded the black youth but everything in the report is just a normal human interaction. And yes a big way we catch criminals is they are not that smart. But that’s a criminals problem not a cops.
IMO if I had a bright orange t-shirt on and the officer did not think I was the criminal he was searching for but wanted to talk to me and asks “hey did you see a couple teens in black around here” the cops behavior would likely be 100% identical. This is just how you approach someone at night you want to talk to. We can’t make it illegal for cops to talk to people.
If you're approaching them from the opposite direction then yes, that's perfectly normal. What happened here is that the officer was following K.C. from behind, got ahead of him, and turned around, blocking his path forward. If a stranger did this to you in public, it would be highly abnormal and probably raise some kind of alarm. If a cop did this to you, it would not suggest that the encounter was casual.
Yes, I 100% agree that it is not casual. The office either suspects me of a crime or thinks I may have information he wants. It’s a clear indicator he wants to talk to me. I could see a colleague doing in this in an office walking up from behind and turning to face me. They have something they urgently want to talk to me about.
But wanting to interact with me and being detained are not the same thing.
Someone above posted prior case law like Florida v Bostick. I feel comfortable saying this ruling is not in line with US constitutional law. And this court is overstepping their authority (since apparently they haven’t stated this is based on state law).
If I were this suspect: Do I think the cop suspects me of a criminal offense: yes Has he detained me: no
I commented above, and those cases don't really apply here. Michigan v. Chesternut says that it's a detention if a reasonable person would feel free to leave due to an officer's is of force or authority. Blocking someone's path so they can't proceed in the direction they were traveling is a pretty clear escalation from simply wanting to speak to someone. The officer was certainly capable of communicating that he'd like to have a chat without physically impeding the kid's progress. This wasn't even a particularly close call.
Ugh. Now we are debating body language and exact path someone walked. Like the cop walked wrong?
I think a reasonable person can asks “yo am I being detained”
Cop - no Suspect - later
I don’t think you are using a reasonable person standard but a bottom 10% idiot standard.
I have annoying save the whales people walk in front of my path all the time. I don’t call that kidnapping.
I don't think the standard for due process rights should be knowing which magic words to use. Not unless we're going to make public policy of educating people about which spells they have in their spell slots (c.f. Miranda Rights) and force cops to proactively tell people about their detainment status or lack thereof with every interaction.
I am down with magic words. A reasonable human being is able to make conversation. That is what makes us human.
The alternative ends up being a cop looked at me wrong therefore evidence suppressed.
And I disagree with the characterization of “am I being detained” or “get out of my way I’m walking home” as some kind of magic versus normal human conversation. It’s not some priestly class words that only a few people from a special caste know how to do.
I don’t think you should need a law degree - magical words - to interact with police. That’s not the standard I’m arguing for.
And there isn’t any downside in this specific case. The officer still can’t search the subject without establishing probably cause for detention. You can still suppress for an illegal search. In this case a subject ran because an officer talked to him.
A reasonable human should not be obliged to make conversation with a cop. That's what the "no self incrimination" amendment is for. The government should not be able to compel ANY kind of speech.
(Yes, I know subpoenas exist. I'm not happy about them as applied to private individuals.)
"I am not detaining you. This is not a search." aren't magic words either. I don't see why we should put the burden on citizens, instead of the cops, to clarify the law.
“ A reasonable human should not be obliged to make conversation with a cop. That's what the "no self incrimination" amendment is for.”
“ I am not detaining you. This is not a search." aren't magic words either. I don't see why we should put the burden on citizens, instead of the cops, to clarify the law.”
Our form of government is for citizens. And yes that means being able to competently interact with different parts of government.
At no point in the interaction described to me in this case have any of my rights been violated. A cop looking at me weird doesn’t mean I get a get out of jail free card if I run.
I think if you look at this case different and not as a criminal then you would not think “detention” happened and it’s very clear. If I am strolling thru a park doing nothing illegal and a cop walks up to me to talk I don’t think I am being detained. What makes people just to detention here is that the person actually was a bad guy.
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