This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
If I were to intellectualize my feelings, I'd say that when this topic comes up, I feel a sense of inferiority and shame. The feeling is especially intense when I have to explain the WMAF phenomenon to a friend who is not in the know, and I end up sounding like a race fetishist. It is doubly humiliating if the friend is white, for obvious reasons. Generally, I've come to terms with it. I'm not going to pretend that I don't get a gut feeling sometimes when I see a WMAF couple. I made the comparison to race fetishism content earlier, and I'd say that if you were aware of the dynamic, it's just living in that world every day. You just have to accept it and move on. Like I said before, there's no real way to explain it without sounding completely pathetic, bitter, and emasculated. I can only imagine the mental picture you'd have of me if you judged me purely off of these posts.
There's also the specifically racial component. As we all know, Asians are "White adjacent" when it comes to racial politics, so it's perfectly acceptable to be openly racist toward them. One thing that bothers me is the nonchalance that you see in the Asian women when they say "I don't date Asian men." As if that's just no big deal. But that's just normal racial politics in The Year of Our Lord 2026.
Like I said, Asians can get really deranged and about it, and to be honest, I understand. Men are already suffering intensely in the current dating market, and to add a racial component to it definitely does not help. I might have even fallen into the rabbit hole had I been less successful with women. There but for the grace of God go I.
Just as a side note, you noticed the views that Asian women have toward their own father/brother/future sons. A lot of ink has actually been spilt on this. Believe it or not, there's actually intense discussion in some parts of the internet about the effects of having WMAF parents, as opposed to AMWF, with one theory postulating that the Asian female in the WMAF relationship would actively start to feel disgust toward the Asian part of their children, especially sons. For example, there are some that believe that if Elliot Rodger had been born to AMWF parents instead of WMAF parents, he would not have turned out the way he did, and that part of his psychosis came from the deep rooted self hatred instilled by his mother. Obviously it's all conjecture (and quite tasteless at that), but I can see why such a theory may be attractive.
I have known a few AMWF Wasians and I think because fathers play a smaller role in childrearing than mothers the consequence is that the place they grow up in makes all the difference. For example, two common AMWF pairings are a pretty Russian woman and an affluent or cool Chinese/Korean man in an East Asian mega city, and a successful professional East Asian man in a big Western city like London or New York or San Francisco and his white wife (disproportionately middle or Northern European if from Europe, generically white if American).
Those who grow up in the West tend to grow up wholly in generic PMC culture, there is pretty much zero chance of them speaking their father’s ancestral language (whether he’s first or subsequent generation). I suspect an additional factor is that the, say, Chinese-American guy with a white wife is probably less interested in cultural continuity, the Chinese language and culture, connection to those traditions than the Chinese American man with a Chinese[-American] wife, for the same reason that would be true of any mixed pairing. Because their white moms will have predominantly white mom friendship groups, it’s likely the children will be in primarily white social circles and will not be in hyper striver extracurricular focused must-go-to-elite-college environments, although it can still happen. While Asian dads are often very ambitious for their kids, my understanding is that the actual ground-level tiger mom stuff is distinctly tiger mom, not dad.
Those who grow up in Asia can be like the above if the mother and father are part of tightly knit European or American expat circles, have no or limited local family etc. But in cases where, say, a Russian woman lives with her Chinese husband and kids in Hong Kong, and his entire extended family is there, and they are not solely international school types (they may still be private school types, but there are private schools that are predominantly expat and those that are predominantly native), it is likely the children will grow up more immersed in the paternal side culture.
There are other popular AMWF categories, I think in Australia the Filipino man - white woman pairing is apparently common. But I’m less familiar with them.
More options
Context Copy link
Interesting. I was going to ask how these dynamics play out when the woman in question is wasian herself vs. 100% Asian. Do they still act the same, have the same preferences, racism, etc.?
And I wonder if as you point out that WMAF daughters are different from AMWF daughters. I only know one of the latter and for all intents and purposes she basically seemed like any other white girl, but the WMAF daughters seem to act and associate more as Asians.
Curious to get your thoughts here.
I’d guess a WMAF daughter would be more unlikely to date Asian men than an AMWF daughter.
A WMAF daughter’s very own existence is an example of an Asian woman choosing a white man over an Asian man, thus heightening the status of white men and lowering the status of Asian men in her eyes, increasing her attraction toward white men and her ick felt toward Asian men. Vice versa for AMWF daughter, with it generalizing for daughters of mixed-race pairings in general.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link