This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I really don't like making grand pronouncements (I think it's a bit narcissistic) but since I seem to have a reputation on The Motte I think it's only fair to take my licks:
Blah blah blah, words words words, excuses excuses, feel free to get your licks in now.
The prevailing narrative on the online right back in 2016 was that Trump was it. The final charge. One last hurrah. The demographics can't sustain first world politics if things don't radically change. The detractors and 'true realists' said the demographics were already too far gone, but people chose to believe in Trump. Either he gets things done or it's over and we will be permanently stuck in a non-white/third-world timeline. The 'energy' and hope around Trump and his campaign in 2016 was powerful but the nasty little secret behind it was desperation. Change wasn't just coming, it was already here and time was running out.
The elements of the right that understood the demographic timeline started dropping off throughout Trump's first term, as Trump failed to live up to what was needed of him. Which might have been too much, to be fair to Trump. But what sealed the deal was that Trump was never operating on that wavelength to begin with. The right wing completely lost its direction after that. Either you dropped into the Trump vortex or you became politically homeless, supporting the right wing only for self preservation and a seething dislike of the left.
Following that, you had multiple camps all looking for answers as to just what to do or what their politics even were. Hating on Trump became an immediate reflexive pastime, whilst others held to some kind of hope that he could change. Some slid back towards the left and Liberalism or fell back into their old libertarian foxholes, whilst others just rode the Tiger like Fuentes.
Higher minded folks who saw themselves outside the former alt-right, now grift-right, started taking their own views far too seriously. Either by reviving the spirit of VenomFangX and becoming born again online Christians, now that their main adversary, online Atheism, has killed itself. Or by dropping the middle man and directly worshipping their own blogs instead. The NRx has famously solved the world through blogging and posting mildly racist and sexist takes on X, though it has so far failed to achieve its most immediate goal of tardwrangling the lower caste right wingers into supporting JD Vance. I mean, what good is all this theory and intelligence if you can't muster the men to do your bidding? But all of that was just cope. Desperate attempts at retreating and organizing after the big battle had been lost.
The core of the right was always very simple. Find hard but clear and pivotal truths about the world, recognize them and take the necessary actions these truths demand. Natural Law, Capitalism, Demographics is destiny. And in an odd way the last few years have managed to diffuse that simple core into a bunch of meaningless nonsense that, even if symptomatic of a host of issues, doesn't count towards anything real.
The truth of it is that we're experiencing the fallout of white America's final failure. As the first world slowly slides into being a first world and a half. And considering we don't have a ground war in Iran just yet, America might just have got off easy, as far as that issue is concerned, and Trump might have done more good than many. Which is certainly believable when looking back at his competition in 2016.
Great comment. I think the failure can be understood like this: when you listen to anyone, leftism is what you get, but when you listen to the brilliant, you get rightism. The American right, however, listened to anyone, and so leftism is what they got. Some brilliant people spoke to them, but they did not listen, so now they have what they have.
In other words, Trump was not a good enough man. There were men who could have ruled, but the right spurned them. But actions have consequences, so consequences were had. When Trump failed, all of the brilliant thinkers left the right, leaving it a void of mental desolation. The sophist NRx bloggers were at the head of this desolation. I know children in middle school with better writing style, and I know pot heads with better philosophical capacities than many of these.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link