site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   37983 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Reloading is massively faster than throwing away a long gun and drawing a second one.

It's faster if you have experience reloading a rifle. I have reloaded a rifle exactly once in my life, and I would probably take a second rifle with me as well if I went mass shooting. Well, I would probably take multiple handguns instead.

Well, I would probably take multiple handguns instead.

The Virginia Tech shooter did this to great effect.

Press the button to drop the mag, slam in the new one, pull the charging handle, and all of this is designed to be done fairly easily without taking your right hand off the pistol grip. You have to be really bad with guns for it to not make sense, and even then a pistol as your backup makes far more sense than a second long gun.

Press the button to drop the mag, slam in the new one, pull the charging handle

It's a bit more subtle than that. I've seen even experienced shooters simply trying a new but unfamiliar gun do this:

  • Pull trigger, get click and not bang

  • Look at the gun to figure out why it stopped

  • Notice you're out of ammunition

  • Drop mag

  • Fumble around in your pockets for another mag

  • Try to put it in and notice it won't go because it's backwards

  • Flip it around and put it in

  • Close the slide/pull the charging handle

  • Aim at the target and pull the trigger

  • Get another click

  • Take another couple seconds to figure out it's because the mag isn't seated- full magazines, especially Glock 33-rounders, need some authority to lock in (this can also cause a secondary malfunction where the round is free of the mag but stuck in the action, but we'll assuming it doesn't here)

  • Seat the mag harder this time

  • Charge the gun again

  • Fire

This generally takes about 10-15 seconds for someone who has these remedy steps already in working memory.

Unpracticed is going to take longer, and in this context anyone in the line of fire who isn't frozen in fear has more than enough time to escape. More than one gun makes it possible to give up halfway through. (The handgun was probably there for suicide reasons; this shooter was probably not expecting to just get shot on sight.)

I think you underestimate the skill floor of doing this kind of thing under stress. Watch videos of 2-Gun ACM/Brutality matches and see how hard seemingly simple things become. Now try doing this in a real-ass situation where you're literally killing people and you're up against the harsh timer of "the cops are going to show up at some point to stop you." Ian McCollum and Karl Kasarda have talked about how adding the stress of a timer changes everything about your execution of your shooting skills. This is also leaving aside the concept of "spree shooters are not half as experienced as 'gun nuts.'"

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats