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Well, largely that people get choked out, live on TV, all the damned time, and after consulting this list, none have ever died of it. So I would consider it categorically different than knifing someone.
I actually think MMA has given people are a false impression of the safety of chokes and that's probably part of what results in situations like Neely or Eric Gardner. Yes, people can be blood-choked and then quickly released without suffering long-term consequences. This is much safer if both participants are on the same page about the stopping point, are highly practiced and technically versed in the practice, are following a ruleset that mitigates lethal risk, and have an official to mediate and end the match as soon as someone is no longer capable of defending themselves. In real life, trying to control a flailing crackhead doesn't include a guy that's going to inform you that the crackhead's continued movements are autonomic and you need to release him. You may or may not know what you're doing and wind up crushing a windpipe. The crackhead may die from a combination of the physical stress and the massive quantity of drugs they've taken. But if you've watched some UFC and rolled a couple times, you kind of get the impression that this is completely safe rather than just less-lethal than other reliable means of incapacitation.
Yeah, and/or a false impression of the franticness and stakes when grappling outside of controlled conditions like in the octagon or in the gym, especially with a wild hobo.
MMA fighters often make it look so calm when they're grappling, as both the choked and choker are trying to conserve as much energy as possible while looking for subtle repositionings or the next opportunity. The stakes are also relatively low; if you have your opponent in a choke-hold but fail to choke him out, maybe you can just choke or knock him out later, maybe it goes to a decision. Worse comes to worse he later makes you tap, or chokes or knocks you out, but it's just another day at the office.
In contrast grappling a wild hobo is much more frantic, like a desperate fight for a knife in the mud. "Crackhead strength" used to be a common phrase. The stakes are much higher if you release your opponent before you're absolutely sure he's out, as he could do anything ranging from biting to stabbing you, or both. While his opponent was not a hobo, and "just" a home invader likely high on drugs, UFC Light Heavyweight Anthony Smith described how terrifying and difficult it can be trying to fight a deranged opponent, even a much-smaller one (albeit with high school wrestling experience): "No normal human is able to fight like that," Smith said. "I'm by no means the baddest dude on the planet. But he's a regular Joe and I had a hard time dealing with him. And he took everything that I gave him—every punch, every knee, every elbow. He took every single one of them and kept fighting me."
I'd much rather get into a street grappling match with a professional or ex-pro MMA fighter than a hobo. While my chances of winning are much lower with a professional MMA fighter (obviously), the downside of losing to a hobo is that you have no idea what he might do to you given an advantageous position—whereas a lot of pro-MMA fighters are quite merciful in street fights (e.g., Matt Serra and Ryan Hall) and most importantly, likely smell better (for example, Luke Rockhold was literally the figurative face of Polo Blue). It would seriously suck, though, if one got into an altercation with someone who sits at the intersection between ex-pro MMA fighter and wild hobo, like Krazy Horse Bennett.
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Yep. A lot of guys are going to tap as soon as they realize that they're blacking out or can't offer any more meaningful resistance against their opponent. That eliminates a lot of the danger right there.
Mike Cernovich made a similar point. MMA fighters tap out , newbs flail around
I mean. I've only dabbled in martial arts as a teenager. I might've earned a stripe or two on my white belt; I'm no badass martial artist. I've been choked out a few times doing BJJ. I was 5'6" and 130, and most of the guys were bigger and stronger. But when you get choked out by someone who knows what they're doing, you black out and go limp. After that, the other guy lets you go.
This was a case of a wild dude against a guy who didn't really know what he was doing. Also, three guys is kind of too few to restrain a man like that without risking seriously injuring or killing the other guy...when I was on the psych ER we generally wanted the ratio to be more like six or eight to one.
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Well that's just on them and their poor life choices. But even given the rest, what is the better option? What possible better option was there, aside from let Neely act on his threat to kill someone? And if that is the only choice being offered, then yeah, I default to
So I guess congratulations on boxing me into your false dichotomy.
Dude, I'm the one that doesn't care what happens to the vagrant. I flatly do not care that he fucked around and found out. I don't think the guy that killed him did so intentionally. I wish more people would behave like the Marine in the story. The only thing I'm arguing with you is the chain of causality wherein I'm pretty sure Neely wouldn't be dead if he hadn't been choked.
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