This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Will AI bring back beauty?
Looking at midjourney's top pieces of art I am struck by the beauty in them. They contain detail, high degrees of realism even when depicting surrealist themes. They tend to be symmetrical and often portray idealized versions of reality. AI art tends to portray archetypal depicitions of its motifs and often excludes blemmishes, dirt and grime.
Compare it with corporate memphis a primarily human generated art form that has gained significant traction in the public space in the past decade. This is the most expensive painting painted by a living woman.
Compare the buildings drawn by the AI with the best exterior of 2022 in Sweden according to architects.
AI gives people what it gets positive feedback from. It gives people what they want. People want visually stunning rather than the output of the art community.
We're now post-scarcity for beauty.
Unlike all ages past, if all you wish to look at are beautiful things, you're very much in luck. Any idiot with a midrange GPU, or an internet connection for the matter, can generate all the beauty on demand they want.
And I contend that this is clearly and obviously a good thing.
Ugliness sucks, going to stores and online catalogues and being forced to choose from a limited selection sucks, forced consumption of capeshit wherever you go sucks, now anyone with a modicum of taste can overcome their lack of artistic aptitude and make their own.
We're post-scarcity for the most hollow, superficial, devoid-of-meaning kinds of beauty. I get that my view is mine alone and others needn't share it, but when I look at AI art I feel cheated - there are the visual cues of an artist taking care to weave meaning and presentation together, but in truth it's just a surface-level regurgitation of previous works and lacks all sense or intention.
It's like being presented with something resembling, at a glance, a meal, only to discover that the taste is all artificial flavoring, there are no nutrients whatsoever, and the whole thing is a uniform sludge that falls apart at the fork's first touch.
Is this beauty? I'd say we're still a long way away from it. Making beauty may be the last thing the AIs learn to do rather than the first. So far all they are capable of producing is mimics, and a closer look just leads to disgust.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link