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PaperclipPerfector  11mo ago (text post)   31539 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 22, 2023

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Given that we've already had our bit of Holocaust "revisionism" this early in the week, I thought I'd share some interesting, trivia, I guess that I recently learned of in that community.

I am given to understand that the most "mainstream" source of Holocaust revisionism is an organization called the Institute For Historical Review (IHR). They appear to be a pretty standard research organization in some ways, publishing papers and web articles and holding conferences and such. While they do not claim to be solely dedicated to the subject, they sure publish a good bit of material that's highly critical of Jews and their influence on the world, the history of the Holocaust, and apologetic towards the Nazi regime. I understand them to be the original source of many of the standard Holocaust denier talking points involving such things as "resettlement in the east".

It turns out that, way back in 2009, the director of the IHR, one Mark Weber, published an article titled "How Relevant is Holocaust Revisionism?" in which he basically admits that the mainstream historical view of the Holocaust is accurate. He hasn't really changed his mind that much - no indication of some cabal "getting to him" somehow. Rather, he now takes the position that while "Jewish-Zionist power is a palpable reality with harmful consequences for America, the Middle East, and the entire global community", the Holocaust basically happened the way it's described, but it's not really that important of a factor in "Jewish Power" and it's not a good use of their time to attack it. Here's a pull quote that I think is representative of the basic point he's making:

In short, the Holocaust assumed an important role in the social-cultural life of America and western Europe in keeping with, and as an expression of, a phenomenal increase in Jewish influence and power. The Holocaust “remembrance” campaign is not so much a source of Jewish-Zionist power as it is an expression of it. For that reason, debunking the Holocaust will not shatter that power.

Suppose The New York Times were to report tomorrow that Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust center and the US Holocaust Memorial Museum had announced that no more than one million Jews died during World War II, and that no Jews were killed in gas chambers at Auschwitz. The impact on Jewish-Zionist power would surely be minimal.

There's also a 30 minute video interview with one Jim Rizoli, a considerably more enthusiastic Holocaust denier, in which he expresses basically the same view and goes on in more detail about a few points. IMO, he comes off as pretty calm and reasonable, while Rizoli comes off as rather unhinged and obsessed.

I think I agree with him in the sense that, if you wanna try and make a point about the role and influence of Jews in today's society, go ahead and make it, but quibbling over the details of exactly what happened to how many in the Holocaust is pointless.

Good evening! I checked the rules of the Culture War Roundup before posting this and I think you are in violation of this one:

Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

It also seems very “Boo Outgroup!”y, while we’re on the subject. And while it’s generally agreed that Holocaust revisionists are a safe and acceptable outgroup to boo and sneer at, I don’t believe that makes it any better; rather, it’s just boring at best, and outright insidious at worst. Holocaust revisionists today, Nazis are bad, yes, but what about the theoretical outgroup that supplants them as a safe and acceptable outgroup? Or their followup? The one after?

To wit, this comment thread itself just smacks of intellectual laziness and, if you will pardon a bit of parlance from our digital homeland, circlejerking. Do Holocaust revisionists even need lampooning, however flowery the wording of that lampooning? Is there really anyone noteworthy in the Holocaust revision camp?

  • -12

What's the boo and sneer? It's mostly about one particular person, who I said that I at least somewhat agree with. I don't think it's "Boo Outgroup" to acknowledge that there are some intelligent and reasonable people who find themselves in that camp for a while, and that it's pretty common for those to eventually convince themselves that the mainstream view is basically correct. We definitely do have some revisionists here, and we mostly debate them in a reasonable fashion rather than calling them names and banning them, which I believe is the proper way to do things.

First of all, if you think a post is in violation of the rules, report it.

Second, no, it isn't.

Carp is one of the head honchos over at arrdrama. Just like most of his baitees, he doesn't bite.

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