site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 29, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

What? Are you saying that the op itself is the drama which the op brought down upon us? What does "drama" mean?

We're saying "Don't start a thread here just to bitch about how you got banned on reddit."

I know what the general stance is, but @cjet79 said

No amount of details or contextualizing will save a post if it's bring drama down upon us.

And then

only one person (the original poster) but that's enough.

Am I out of line for asking him to explain what he meant by that? I don't want to bring drama down upon us. Or are you saying I should ignore that line of reasoning and just not write ops bitching about reddit bans?

I'm not sure why exactly you need "drama" described.

Drama is personal conflict. Its spreading rumors, playing games of 'he said, she said'. Its getting into the details of personality. Its petty. It is ultimately just about the people.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

I don't fully agree with this quote, but I agree with the gradient. Ideas are low drama, discussing people is high drama. The more personal and close you are to the people the higher the drama. Talking about distant politicians that no one here knows can kinda be low drama (but some posters disagree and don't want us to even allow insulting politicians).

Am I out of line for asking him to explain what he meant by that?

Not out of line, but this will probably be my last attempt to explain things.

I don't want to bring drama down upon us.

Wrong way to think of it. You are not sitting in traffic, you are traffic. OP both was the drama, and in danger of bringing more.

just not write ops bitching about reddit bans?

That is definitely a take-away I'm trying my best to explain how you go from high level rules to a specific takeaway like "don't bitch about reddit bans". I'm also not entirely sure that is even an accurate takeaway. I think you could easily write an effortpost about reddit bans, how you think the moderator problems are causing reddit to slowly die, how you have been banned from subreddits for seemingly minor things, etc. If you kept the post out of the specifics of "I said x, the mod then said y, then they banned me, then i challenged them in modmail with z" then it would probably be fine. Some of the responses to the original post are examples of how a top level comment could have been made and been fine.

An excellent explanation, thank you.