site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   29209 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 29, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

last week, SCOTUS ruled on a case from 2017 about whether teamsters were allowed to walk off the job, leaving their trucks with drying cement.

Drivers showed up to work on strike day as normal. Those with early routes had their trucks filled with cement and went out to make deliveries. But after the final negotiations with the company broke down, the drivers went on strike. Those out on routes were told by the union to drive their trucks back to the company and leave them running so the cement wouldn’t immediately harden, which the drivers did. Management couldn’t decant the cement or make all of the deliveries in time, and some of the cement hardened and had to be destroyed.

Unlike, say, abortion rights, the right to strike is protected under federal law—specifically, under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA). That law normally supersedes (lawyers use the word “preempts”) state tort claims like the one filed by Glacier, but there are edge cases. The law requires striking employees to take “reasonable precautions” to make sure that their employers’ property is not damaged, and the law clearly prohibits striking employees from taking active measures to damage or vandalize property. A striking UPS driver could not, for instance, drive their truck into the middle of Madison Avenue, shout “gifts from Jeff Bezos,” and walk away. But a striking driver could refuse to make deliveries and, if those packages contained perishables that spoiled, the strikers wouldn’t be liable under the NLRA, even if management wanted to lodge a state tort claim against them.

SCOTUS ruled 8-1 against the strikers, with the newest justice KBJ the sole voice opposed. this article from the cato institute sides with them. there's also a bunch of legal stuff about whether the courts should even get to rule on this instead of the NLRB.

If you read the decision, the judges believed that the union deliberately timed the strike to happen after the concrete was mixed. If so, they deliberately caused the damage and the strike shouldn't be permitted.

At least as a legal question, this case was not about whether the strike could happen, but whether the union could be held liable in a civil context for damages caused by the protest.

Exactly. That is a question of fact for a jury to decide. This case is about whether a jury would be allowed to decide.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats