site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 12, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

40
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Major credit card companies are making it easier to track gun sales

Payment processor Visa Inc. said Saturday that it plans to start separately categorizing sales at gun shops, a major win for gun control advocates who say it will help better track suspicious surges of gun sales that could be a prelude to a mass shooting.

It has been a continuing trend, post Heller, that the gun-control activists of the culture war is seeing far more administrative sallies than legislative or judicial wins. This same pattern has recently begun to expand into private enterprise, as noted above.

One does wonder, however, if this is in fact wholly organic activism. The current administration is headed by one of the individuals in office during Operation Choke Point, in which federal agents used back-channel pressure to force payment processors to bend to their will without judicial oversight. This pattern was recently repeated (allegedly) on a wholly different culture war front. Former New York Times reporter Alex Berenson claims that the White House was using back-channel demands to twitter employees to ban him from the service.

If this is true, it's an interesting culture war development. "It's a private company" is a common retort by the side in power whenever the side that is not in power complains about corporate censorship. That fact may be true, but in cases like Operation Choke Point, the State Actor concept starts to rear its ugly head. How much pressure can the government apply before the "private companies" in question are acting under duress, and as such, acting as state actors? How naked must the threats be before it's a demand, rather than a friendly suggestion?

a major win for gun control advocates who say it will help better track suspicious surges of gun sales that could be a prelude to a mass shooting.

This is just . . . something I don't get? The data's going to follow a random curve; how can you tell whether a surge is really a surge or just noise? (Not to mention the sale of the gun could take place many months prior to the shooting, or not even take place on traditional finance payment processor networks at all, or the many other problems with this . . .)

"It's a private company" is a common retort by the side in power whenever the side that is not in power complains about corporate censorship. [...] How much pressure can the government apply before the "private companies" in question are acting under duress, and as such, acting as state actors?

I've never really put much stock into the "it's a private company" retort and always considered it a semantic stop sign meant to justify the speaker's position from whole cloth. Just because a company has the legal right to do something doesn't mean that they (morally) should. Ironically enough, this argument is often invoked to dunk on people arguing for freedom of speech, along the lines of "just because you can legally say something doesn't mean that you should". Regardless, as Scott Alexander points out, there's not a meaningful difference between coercion by the state and coercion by private entities, so any debate that focuses on the legal status of the entity carrying out the action in question (except as to answer a strictly legal question) misses the point entirely.

This is just . . . something I don't get? The data's going to follow a random curve; how can you tell whether a surge is really a surge or just noise?

Look, just couple weeks back the US president declared most Republicans to be a 'national security threat'. Obviously a prelude to re-starting the war on Terror but this time against domestic political enemies.

If credit card companies know who buys guns, when things start getting spicy and a gun buyback / ban comes into effect, credit card companies can just start freezing accounts of people who look like they're harboring illegal guns.