site banner
ZorbaTHut  1yr ago (text post)   Edited 1yr ago   38243 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 12, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

40
Top Bottom New Old Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Well here, in Ukraine, you can watch men defending their homes! Whatever the greater geopolitical yadda yadda, if you're all about traditional masculine strength and duty, and you aren't admiring this, then your ideological prattle has no meaning. It is just Green and Blue to you, your enemies like Ukraine so you have to hate Ukraine. Somehow men defending their homes are the bad guys because something something globohomo.

Their primary enemy is the US government, NATO and so on. Russia is opposing these forces. Therefore, they are on Russia's side.

During WW2, the Western Allies were happy to enlist the Soviet Union in their 'fight for freedom'. You had all these puff pieces in the press about how Uncle Joe Stalin was a really nice guy. Stalin was fighting their primary enemy - he was their friend.

Being principled in your alliances is not an effective way to achieve your goals. Imagine if the Western Allies had declared war on Russia in 1939 (since they did indeed invade Poland along with Germany, along with the Baltics and Finland). That would be in accordance with their principle of defending countries from invasion against totalitarian, genocidal powers. But it would've decisively lost them the war. There was no way they were going to defeat the German and Russian armies working together!

"Yes, you were consistent in your principles while we compromised with evil. But we won the war and used that victory to push liberal democracy as far as Ukraine. You lost the war and the entire Eurasian world-island is ruled by dictatorships. So which of us is more true to our ideology?"

For the Western leftist, Azov is good when it's fighting Russians. When the campaign is over, they can be discarded and LGBT multiculturalism introduced. The Azovites think the same thing, presumably.

When the campaign is over, they can be discarded and LGBT multiculturalism introduced. The Azovites think the same thing, presumably.

While the former is plausible, the latter is... I can't think how they can hope that.

Yeah, it's bizarre. I don't think these guys are the best and brightest.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats