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And how should I react in a way that would satisfy them? Donate money or time to organizations that provide aid to illegal immigrants?
I doubt I'm knowledgeable enough to give you a list of policy prescriptions that will solve the problem overnight, nor does this seem to be the place for that. I'm too lazy to dig up my previous comments on it, but I believe there's room for compromise on immigration and most other issues. The response I got from that was angry conservatives claiming they compromised in the 70s and 80s and why should they listen to me now when they know I'll be back in 20-30 years asking for more compromises?
For lack of a better word, always this: less culture war, please. We're all humans, not moral monsters, let's not cheer the people trying to stoke partisan division for political gain. You and I aren't so different and largely want the same things, yet in some perverse reversal, we spend 80% of our time arguing about the 20% of things we disagree on rather than finding solidarity in the 80% of things we do agree on.
It’s this kind of ultra-smarmy response that makes people laugh at you and dismiss you. You’re openly advocating and voting for policies that many of believe are existentially disastrous for this country - that will literally lead to the financial, cultural and generic dispossession of our people and a disappearance of our posterity from the earth - and when people get angry about it you retreat to “we all want the same things, what about the high road and civility, can’t we just all have a calm and reasonable debate, why all the hate, etc.”
No, Chris, we DON’T all want the same things and just disagree on the little details. Our worldviews genuinely are irreconcilable, and no amount of holier-than-thou ostentatious displays of false empathy - the secular liberal equivalent of “I’ll pray for you” - will bridge those gaps. An uncharitable interpretation of your post is that your main goal here was to “trigger the Cons” and to push OUR buttons, using a conversational tactic that was guaranteed to provoke a hostile response that you could pre-emptively forecast to make yourself look virtuous and us look unreasonable.
It's not smarmy, it's genuine. I'm genuinely sorry that my ethos, policy preferences, whatever it is, infuriate you. I'm sorry that you believe our worldviews are irreconcilable, and we're headed towards whatever conclusion you think that leads us to.
I can't vote.
Alright. How could I rewrite my post in such a way that wouldn't provoke such a response from you, while keeping the same general point intact?
Okay. I'll award you -1 bad point for not personally voting for this stuff, but +1 for each time you've advocated in its favor and helped push even one other person toward supporting it.
I can't vote so I'm not an activist is a really goofy take, my man.
That wasn't my take, and I'm not sure whether you'd count me as an activist or not. But if you're going to tally up my score, I may as well set the record straight, no?
Not to mention I can see someone accusing me of voting illegally down the line or something if I'm unclear about it.
So, to be clear, you do or do not advocate for either explicit open borders or more broadly permissive attitudes toward economic migrants?
For one, I actively advocate for little beyond treating each other better and sometimes I wade into debates on COVID. It's quite rare that I write about culture war topics. I don't consider myself particularly knowledgeable about the border or immigration.
If you're just asking what policy I would support, then no, I don't agree with letting anyone into the country. It seems like there was some agreement that border security was necessary as recently as the Clinton years, and I suspect that if you pressed the median democratic voter rather than the serially online or activist class most would say as much. While expressing some sympathy for the plight of migrants. I'd personally support increased efforts towards developing and stabilizing the countries these people are coming from, but this could either have been shown to be ineffective or is already happening and I'm ignorant of it.
I have a more favorable view towards skilled immigrants legally applying for citizenship, as well as refugee programs.
Let's pretend for a moment that we respect the sovereignty of other nations, and aren't going to colonize them for their own sake. What are some domestic policies you'd put forth to deal with the migrant issues?
I accept you're not pro-open borders. I'd love to hear what you're cool with us doing to remove these people and keep them out.
Economic aid and whatnot may be helpful. Illegal immigration is less and less appealing to Mexicans as their country has developed. Complicated by obvious problems, corruption, unwilling local governments, etc.
That's difficult for me to answer without knowing the efficacy of any given policy relative to the harm/brutality involved. For example, you want ICE agents to hunt down and smash open the doors of every illegal immigrant in America. Well:
With 20,000 ICE agents they'd have to deport 550 illegal immigrants each, not counting the time to track them down, not counting another 0.5-2 million per year. Yes, you could hire more agents, deputize other enforcement agencies, etc, although that all costs money. At a certain point, would it just be cheaper to pay people living on the border a stipend?
After apprehending them, do you just drop them off across the border only to have them walk across it again? I assume this would be paired with other policies.
Would this harm the economy, and particularly the food supply (I assume you'll forgive me stereotyping) if they're integral to harvesting produce? Would this drive inflation, and/or would you have a plan in place to give them more legal, temporary work visas? If you gave out those visas, would the same people be in the same border-ish towns making you angry? Would red tribers approve of this policy if it meant their produce bill doubled?
Probably other externalities I'm not even thinking of at the moment, not to mention the suffering imposed on the people being apprehended, the ICE agents/illegal immigrants that would inevitably get shot, etc.
I'm strongly against anything that explicitly causes bodily harm or deprivation to migrants; i.e. anything with border agents shooting them on sight or something, however effective at Bringing Number Down that may be.
If you could make a case for the efficacy of any given policy, or show me someone who has done this kind of data-driven analysis, I could probably be persuaded one way or the other.
I'd apologize for giving a potentially unsatisfactory answer, but I suppose I'd be accused of feminine concern trolling so.../shrug. That's the best I've got for you at the moment my man. I should also warn you that that's my answer for most things outside of the niche subjects I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable about.
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