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Small-Scale Question Sunday for July 16, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

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In light of some recent discussions, I have a question about GDP for people with better economic knowledge then me. In particular, I'm thinking about the comparison between "clean" source of energy vs "unclean" source of energy in terms of gdp changes it causes (it doesn't need to be energy, could be food or whatever). I've heard the claim before that GDP does not properly price in externalities, but as far as I can judge, it's even worse than that: GDP makes externalities seem positive!

I'll set up a very simplified example to get at what I mean. Assume two groups of each 10 people, let's call them the cleanies and the dirties. Both groups are mostly subsistence farmers so we ignore almost everything except food. Unlike real-life subsistence farmers though, they put up all their food on a shared market so we get to accurately assess their generated food with a GDP. The cleanies do "clean" farming that generates no externalities and each generates one unit of food, so they generate a GDP of 10. The "dirties" generate 10 units of food with only 5 farmers, but the other five are collectively hired by the farmers to clean up the externalities to the degree that it is bearable and getting 1 unit of food in return. The collective GDP is then 15 units, despite living standards being worse since the externalities are too expensive/impossible to perfectly clean up entirely (these uncleaned externalities are the usual "externalities are not priced in" that is often talked about). As far as I can see, neither per capita corrections nor PPP corrections change anything about this.

Am I misunderstanding something here?

i think usually people cleaning up externalities would otherwise be doing something else to produce GDP in the economy so the issue is usually not so bad in practice. also, in practice how GDP is calculated might not include some cleaning externalities. GDP is based on final goods otherwise you could just increase GDP by infinitely splitting production into smaller steps. some externality cleaning is going to look like an 'input' to a final product.